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Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

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Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#181

Post by timr »

Jach wrote: post #111
throwaway3b03 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't believe that they wouldn't take cash? What's so hard to believe about that? Lots of places in the Netherlands don't accept cash (probably out of convenience).

If you know anything about Japan it's very strange that a place wouldn't take cash. Post-covid (and a lot of that thanks to Olympics preparations) a lot of places in Tokyo have advanced to taking things other than cash.

You're not going far enough: before Covid, finding a place (excluding conbini) that took a credit card was rare. Credit cards are common now, like you say, but nearly any business will still accept cash.

I think I've encountered at most 1-2 restaurants in Japan that don't take cash, and none that don't at least accept credit cards.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#182

Post by Tijdreiziger »

keiferski wrote: post #62
Tijdreiziger wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warsaw and New York absolutely do not have the same look to them. (Haven’t been to Dubai to compare.)

I didn't say the cities look the same, I said many modern places in them do. And yes, for example Hudson Yards looks quite similar to a typical mall in Warsaw (e.g., the main one by the train station.) There is nothing about either mall that screams "this is a unique place."

I don’t think many people judge cities by their malls.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#183

Post by jayd16 »

returningfory2 wrote: post #180
deaddodo wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, they’re serious about “no entry” if you have tattoos. This is not uncommon in Japan, in general. Usually it's more of an anti-Yakuza/riffraff regulation than an anti-foreigner one. It just so happens to kill two birds with one stone, in some cases.

Indeed, but in my experience many of these places have an unspoken sub-rule that the tattoo rule is not enforced for foreigners.

Seems like if you smile and act friendly and dumb and American you get a lot of slack along with the Japanese shopkeeper version of an eye roll and a headpat.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#184

Post by supportengineer »

timr wrote: post #57
paulgerhardt wrote: post #14

Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit). Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physi…

I don't know about the Ramen place (I can't believe that they wouldn't take cash?), but I agree with you that more places are doing this kind of "two markets" stuff -- it's even becoming official, in that now there's officially sanctioned "foreigner pricing" for certain temples, shrines, and parks. There's also Google Maps and Yelp vs. Japan's local version (pretty much any review on the former two are useless, and h…

Is there any place you can go to avoid Scam culture? Anywhere at all? It seems pervasive.

I would like to think there is somewhere in the United States, maybe in the Midwest, or West Virginia, there has to be someplace where there are decent hard-working Americans, who are not trying to scam each other.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#185

Post by vorpalhex »

returningfory2 wrote: post #180
deaddodo wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, they’re serious about “no entry” if you have tattoos. This is not uncommon in Japan, in general. Usually it's more of an anti-Yakuza/riffraff regulation than an anti-foreigner one. It just so happens to kill two birds with one stone, in some cases.

Indeed, but in my experience many of these places have an unspoken sub-rule that the tattoo rule is not enforced for foreigners.

We were told by our onsen host that as long as we made a genuine attempt at covering our tattoos, the onsen didn't mind (given that we were obviously foreigners). Making an attempt at covering was still required (and we used high end stage makeup that was waterproof).

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#186

Post by timr »

esperent wrote: post #79
timr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the Ramen place (I can't believe that they wouldn't take cash?), but I agree with you that more places are doing this kind of "two markets" stuff -- it's even becoming official, in that now there's officially sanctioned "foreigner pricing" for certain temples, shrines, and parks. There's also Google Maps and Yelp vs. Japan's local version (pretty much any review on the former two are useless, and h…

> it still requires advance planning for a place that used to be a casual, walk-in experience So, much like every restaurant that becomes popular, anywhere in the world?

> So, much like every restaurant that becomes popular, anywhere in the world?

No, but thanks for the spot-on imitation of an entitled foreign visitor. The insinuation that somehow it's the local people's fault that they don't want their quaint neighborhood restaurants to become McDonald's is indeed part of the problem.

Many restaurants in Japan (my friend's included) are quite obviously one-man, standing-room only operations. They weren't designed or intended to accommodate big groups of people, pulling huge rolling suitcases, ordering off menu, getting offended when the proprietor doesn't offer vegan/gluten free/snowflake options, and tons of other nonsense that goes along with serving tourist hordes.

I realize that you can't un-make the baby, and that Japan's government asked for this, but a lot of locals are still upset about this kind of stuff and I have empathy. Tourism inevitably turns anything authentic into a high-volume, Epcot-center version of itself. That might be fine if you're visiting, but it sucks if you live there.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#187

Post by guardiangod »

WangComputers wrote: post #43
paulgerhardt wrote: post #14

Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit). Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physi…

"they’re serious about “no entry” if you have tattoos" That's nothing unusual in Japan, even Japanese people in Japan can't join a gym or get car insurance if they've got tattoos. They're serious about that stuff for a reason.

I was in a Shikoku hotel's public bath a couple month ago, and a guy with full on Yakuza back (and arms) tattoo came in to shower. No one batted an eye. Granted no staff was present, so no one enforced the rule. I also did not try to get a glimpse of his pinkies.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#188

Post by dumbledoren »

cedws wrote: post #116

I live in Tokyo at the moment. I get the overtourism thing, because after you've been here even just a little while (months) you start to have a disdain for tourists that do tourist things. Like breaking the rules, being a nuisance, swarming parts of the city. I don't know what can be done about it though. Japan's economy is in trouble, and the tourist money helps and hurts at the same time. It creates tax revenue, y…

> Japan's economy is in trouble, and the tourist money helps and hurts at the same time. It creates tax revenue, yet inflates prices for locals

I lived in a successful major tourist region from its inception to maturity. You are incorrect in saying that it creates tax revenue: The Tourism sector generally gets tax breaks and subsidies, so it ends up eating up tax revenue to enrich whatever oligarchic structure or family dominates the landscape. Moreover, in any mild temporary crisi,s it risks collapsing and forces the government to bail it out by spending enormous amounts of money.

Tourism is like a tick that sucks away the productive forces and resources of a country - it diverts both budget (tax breaks, subsidies) and educated manpower away from actual goods and services production, provides sh*t jobs to those employed in tourism, causes inflation and CoL rise across regions and even the entire country. If you want to cripple a country's industrial and technological power, the best thing to do is to push tourism on it.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#189

Post by speak_plainly »

silisili wrote: post #166
speak_plainly wrote: post #157

I just got back from Japan, and even though it wasn’t peak season, the effects of overtourism were immediately apparent. The main driver seems to be social media, obviously not unique to Japan but is really blatant. Tourists were chasing selfies and videos at iconic locations they’d seen online, rarely venturing beyond those well-known spots. This creates heavy congestion and puts strain on specific neighborhoods and…

> The result is a tourism culture shaped less by genuine interest or curiosity and more by curated photo ops Well said, but definitely not unique to Japan. Sadly, I notice this almost everywhere I go anymore. It's also why you read about someone falling down a cliff or waterfall taking a selfie once or twice a year now. I don't have any idea what the solution is, but it definitely makes most sights worth seeing less…

The cynic in me thinks that destinations/countries are going to have to pay an influencer tax and have a strong social media policy that works to direct/redirect and educate potential tourists. Japan needs to start spreading tourism a bit more evenly across the country. They could probably work with hotels to use pricing to even out visitors. But you’re right, this is a huge problem that goes well beyond Japan.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#190

Post by vkou »

DaSHacka wrote: post #155
harimau777 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of those tiny locations all over the US are in red states. Lots of people aren't going to want to go to locations where public infrastructure has been hollowed out and discrimination is legal.

> and discrimination is legal. Do you have proof of these red states re-legalizing discrimination, or repealing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (and/or Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990)? I failed to find anything about this supposed upheaval of established legal statute after a quick google search.

You're saying that large parts of red states aren't hostile to, say, LGBTQ people?

Why do they keep electing people who are, and passing legislature that is, then?

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