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Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

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Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#21

Post by 512 »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #17
Etheryte wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of very two minds on this topic. On one hand, it's widely accepted that most (not to say all) drugs leave a permanent mark on brains that are not yet fully developed, so teenagers who are often most curious about these things. Gated access is highly desirable in this context, especially as you can't take self regulation for granted. On the other hand, many of these substances show great promise in many clinical t…

Yeah - I feel like we need a little bit more of a stripped down approach to drugs in the US. If you’re 18 or under, there need to be a lot of restrictions because we know for a fact that a lot of these things have a profound negative impact on brain development, and we also know that we don’t even fully understand the extent to which various mind altering substances can impact development. It’s just safer to say “no”…

> I know they will before that

I'm curious in what demographic/location context you're in to say that. As a teen I wasn't aware of anyone in my social circles experimenting with drugs and would estimate usage to be <10% and from very particular kinds of people.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#22

Post by JKCalhoun »

demiters wrote: post #7
hnlmorg wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has been various governments approach to drugs for literally decades and it got us nowhere. The problem isnt that this still is casually available. Drugs have been casually available since forever. The problem is that pushing drug usage to the fringes makes it less safe for people who haven’t done their homework. Ironically the exact opposite of that you claimed.

You're right. I'm all for across-the-board decriminalisation btw. But I don't really know where a responsible balance would be for psychedelic availability, my intuition is we shouldn't be aiming at OTC disposable DMT vapes etc.

Perhaps administration of the drug from a professional? Make the treatment an affordable and legal option.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#23

Post by mathiaspoint »

hnlmorg wrote: post #4
demiters wrote: post #3

Not a big fan of the ongoing productisation of transcendental, possibly brain-scrambling experiences. Keeping them somewhat less accessible tends to filter out people who don't do their homework to understand the substance and who consider it just another novel experience to try on a whim, which increases the risk of negative outcomes.

That has been various governments approach to drugs for literally decades and it got us nowhere. The problem isnt that this still is casually available. Drugs have been casually available since forever. The problem is that pushing drug usage to the fringes makes it less safe for people who haven’t done their homework. Ironically the exact opposite of that you claimed.

I think with psychedelics it's fine. The problems you're talking about are with addictive stimulants.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#24

Post by soulofmischief »

fedeb95 wrote: post #5

thinking that our own judgement is better than a doctor judgement, supported by a vast community and shared knowledge, is epistemically interesting. Beware that I'm not saying that doctors, or the scientific community, can't be wrong, everyone can be wrong, even ourselves. Personally, I'd rather have a proper doctor prescribe me said medicine than take it myself.

In an ideal world maybe, but in the real world, most doctors are conditioned by US propaganda and the War on Drugs. Their views are compromised.

Furthermore, I've had mixed experiences with health professionals. It took me 10 years across multiple clinics and states to get diagnosed with gout that I've had since at least my late teens. Laughed out of multiple doctor's offices because I'm a "healthy young male" even though each day and night was filled with excruciating pain and drastically reduced mobility. "Full test panels" that specifically did not test my uric acid, because no healthy young male has gout.

No mention of gout ever to me, of course. I had to self diagnose as the disease progressed due to lack of treatment. Got my diagnosis confirmed by a physician's assistant, because both doctors at that clinic were on vacation at the same time for like the third time that quarter. He ordered a uric acid test, and was surprised that I'd never been offered one.

Both doctors had literally laughed me out of the office over the previous months. But I was persistent and it turns out the physician's assistant there was both more thorough and more knowledgeable than either doctor, helping me finally begin a path to treatment. I was damn near about to kill myself from a decade of extraordinary pain. From my discussions with older, typical gout sufferers, my case is extraordinarily bad and most of them only experience mild pain.

It's equally as silly to place 100% trust in doctors as it is to place 0% trust in them.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#25

Post by hiddencost »

fedeb95 wrote: post #5

thinking that our own judgement is better than a doctor judgement, supported by a vast community and shared knowledge, is epistemically interesting. Beware that I'm not saying that doctors, or the scientific community, can't be wrong, everyone can be wrong, even ourselves. Personally, I'd rather have a proper doctor prescribe me said medicine than take it myself.

Given that the current regime is bringing back measles, appeals to authority are becoming fraught.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#26

Post by JKCalhoun »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #16
fedeb95 wrote: post #5

thinking that our own judgement is better than a doctor judgement, supported by a vast community and shared knowledge, is epistemically interesting. Beware that I'm not saying that doctors, or the scientific community, can't be wrong, everyone can be wrong, even ourselves. Personally, I'd rather have a proper doctor prescribe me said medicine than take it myself.

I'd say it's irrelevant. Doctors typically have no exposure, interest nor knowledge about these things. So they are not the ones to have an opinion about it.

We should fix that then. (Timothy Leary was in fact a doctor. Perhaps though his overly zealous enthusiasm for LSD makes him not the ideal example in this case though.)

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#27

Post by gavinray »

Euphorbium wrote: post #19

I have not used 5-meo, but for n,n DMT the vape is without a doubt the most convenient method.

I've done it a few times. Unlike DMT, you don't have to vaporize it.

It's active intranasally and well as buccally/sublingually.

Effects-wise, it feels roughly identical to DMT but with a longer duration.

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#29

Post by Forgeties79 »

512 wrote: post #21
Forgeties79 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah - I feel like we need a little bit more of a stripped down approach to drugs in the US. If you’re 18 or under, there need to be a lot of restrictions because we know for a fact that a lot of these things have a profound negative impact on brain development, and we also know that we don’t even fully understand the extent to which various mind altering substances can impact development. It’s just safer to say “no”…

> I know they will before that I'm curious in what demographic/location context you're in to say that. As a teen I wasn't aware of anyone in my social circles experimenting with drugs and would estimate usage to be <10% and from very particular kinds of people.

Teenagers (in the US) before they go to college pretty typically at least try weed and alcohol at some point. Whether or not they tell their parents is a different story entirely

Re: Bill Atkinson's psychedelic user interface

#30

Post by _fat_santa »

We need to push to make this stuff legal. I wouldn't go so far as to say lets sell it OTC vape pens at gas stations but a middle ground where you can go to a doctor to have this treatment performed.

I personally have never taken DMT though from everything I've read and heard on podcasts it's not something to be taken lightly. I think having a sort of "DMT Clinic" that you can go to would be the best middle ground of allowing the public access to these substances while also ensuring that there is a trained professional there to guide you through the process.

Saying "trained professional" in this context feels wired because this stuff has been underground for so long but I think it's starting to bubble up into the mainstream enough that we need to start bringing all that "into the light". Lets have training programs that teach people how to administer this stuff properly, how to deal with the negative side effects, etc.

One of the things that while I find understandable is ridiculous is the fact that Bill had to use a pseudonym in the community. I feel like if were at the point where you have C-suite types at Apple taking this stuff, it's time to think about making it available to the broader public.

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