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Apple vs the Law

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Re: Apple vs the Law

#171

Post by xandrius »

giingyui wrote: post #163
simonask wrote: post #46

As a European, I have to say I am generally impressed with the EU in these cases. I'm from a country that's rich and capable, but with a GDP a fraction of Apple's market cap. There is no chance that national laws and entities would be sufficient to protect my consumer rights from corporations this size. The EU is fundamentally a centre-right, liberalist, pro-business coalition, but what that means is that it is pro-c…

Europe is centre right? That is an interesting claim. I guess someone’s right is someone else’s left.

Where would you place it? I'm curious because centre-right is quite spot on.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#172

Post by oaiey »

moontear wrote: post #111

I get the spirit of the DMA. I get the whole designation of gatekeepers and do agree Apple is a closed ecosystem. What I don't understand are the implementation details and I always hear "it is complex". Let's stick with earbuds or watches, where the argument (e.g. Garmin) is that they can't create functionally equal devices to AirPod / Apple Watch, because not all APIs are open. I understand this point, since yes, A…

> Assume everything is open now - wouldn't that create chaos?

Yeah, but equal chaos to all. In the end the achievable experience for Samsung and Apple earbuds need to be the same. It does not need to be the best one.

If Apple wants to have the best experience, they should create for each improvement a new API version and tell it in reasonable advance to their competitors to allow them to equal the playing field.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#173

Post by xandrius »

nntwozz wrote: post #147

I dream of an alternate reality where Steve Jobs makes snide remarks about politics, sets things right with the App Store (worldwide), Siri, Ai and the lackluster UI and quality control of software lately. Steve would get on top of things and speak his mind and we were all better off for it. There's a severe lack of character in Tim Cook, I think the best thing to come out under his reign is the M-series hardware and…

Sane computer design, in what way?

I still see unopenable devices, batteries glued to death and even more closed systems. Next they reverted to liquid glass UI, is that sane?

Re: Apple vs the Law

#174

Post by vegabook »

simonask wrote: post #46

As a European, I have to say I am generally impressed with the EU in these cases. I'm from a country that's rich and capable, but with a GDP a fraction of Apple's market cap. There is no chance that national laws and entities would be sufficient to protect my consumer rights from corporations this size. The EU is fundamentally a centre-right, liberalist, pro-business coalition, but what that means is that it is pro-c…

I wish people would stop comparing a stock (market cap) with a flow (GDP).

Re: Apple vs the Law

#175

Post by saubeidl »

madeofpalk wrote: post #162
saubeidl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a bad-faith argument and a false equivalency I will not engage in, lest I be warned by the mods for falling for obvious bait again.

Why is it a false equivalency, apart from "i agree with one law but not the other"?

One is a law. The other is a doomed attempt at a law by a fraction of extremists - they have tried and failed to do this many a time and it does not deserve to be taken seriously.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#176

Post by pjmlp »

alt227 wrote: post #127
pjmlp wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has always been like this, they were only humble during the few years they almost went bankrupt and needed all the help they could get.

Not in the view of the general public. The 'colourful era' of Mac G3s, and fancy iPod ads went a long way into making the average consumer see them as trendy, cool, and disrupting the normal boring tech industry we were used to. That reputation got them really far by riding the wave into the launch of the iPhone. Since then their reputation has been slowly eroding with the average consumer with the combined stagnatio…

That was exactly during the humble phase when the possible bankruptcy was still not yet fully sorted out.

They were also doing visits to universities showing how great it was the BSD / NeXTSTEP foundations of OS X, for doing UNIX related stuff.

Similar to how NeXT used to position itself against Sun, and other UNIX workstation vendors.

During my CERN stay at 2003 - 2004, they did visits to our IT telling more or less the same.

Had the coloured Macs with OS X Aqua or the iPod failed the market, that was it, yet another footnote of remarkable computing history company now gone.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#177

Post by oaiey »

OkPin wrote: post #61

This is fascinating and troubling. Apple’s presentation felt more like a marketing defense than a compliance discussion. Their claim that meeting the DMA “current interpretation” is “impossible” really stood out, it’s almost like they’re banking on legal ambiguity to stall real change. I’m curious: if Apple and Google are using workshops as delay tactics, what’s the EC’s real enforcement power here? Are small fines e…

Rule of law also means, that fair process is given. which takes time. It is a problem, 100% agree, but I prefer a slow enforcement because of this than a unjust enforcement.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#178

Post by planb »

jeroenhd wrote: post #85
planb wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former European, I agree with your first statement. I love that the EU is taking this seriously, and I like how they introduced the "gatekeeper" term to apply regulations only to the "big ones" and not small businesses (even though I don't agree with many of the individual laws in the DMA). That said, you can't argue that this isn't protectionist - we simply don't have any gatekeepers here, so if we're fair the…

> we simply don't have any gatekeepers here Booking would love that to be the case. And last I heard, Zalando is currently fighting the EU over having to comply with the DMA.

No, this is under the DSA (digital services act), not the DMA.

The DSA tells platforms how they must keep users safe and transparent, the DMA tells the largest gatekeepers how they must behave toward competitors and business users.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#179

Post by rTX5CMRXIfFG »

nntwozz wrote: post #147

I dream of an alternate reality where Steve Jobs makes snide remarks about politics, sets things right with the App Store (worldwide), Siri, Ai and the lackluster UI and quality control of software lately. Steve would get on top of things and speak his mind and we were all better off for it. There's a severe lack of character in Tim Cook, I think the best thing to come out under his reign is the M-series hardware and…

I admire Steve Jobs as a visionary as much as everyone else, but I never thought it was fair for people to keep discounting Tim Cook as the “lesser” man between the two. He was the one who took the company to a trillion dollar valuation. He took on the operations and supply chain work that no computer nerd or product visionary ever wants to take. He did the hard, unsexy work that no one wanted to do and yet people see him as worse for it.

Re: Apple vs the Law

#180

Post by [deleted] »

grishka wrote: post #128
amelius wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seriously at a loss about why people would support this increasingly developer-hostile ecosystem and essentially work towards their own demise and perhaps even the rest of their profession. I'd suggest switching to a different source of income while you still can, even if only out of self-respect.

Because as a developer, you often don't get that choice, for example, if your product is an online service. Either you have an iOS app and play by Apple's stupid rules, or you don't, and your iPhone users go to a competitor that does have an iOS app, or at the very least complain quite loudly.

[deleted]
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