Zorin OS • Hacker News Board

Re: Zorin OS

#161

Post by phendrenad2 » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 2:05 AM UTC

prmoustache wrote: post #159

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that I believe is dragging down “mass audience” sorts of distros like Zorin is that they’re only Windows-like in a vague sense, leaving them in an “uncanny valley” of sorts. One of these distros really needs to commit to the bit of Windows-like-ness so it’s a seamless drop-in to the greatest degree possible.

I don't know, when I installed a linux distro with xfce on her laptop after he hdd died it took my partner months to realize she wasn't using windows. I mean she only figured out libreoffice was installed instead of the pirated copy of office she used to run and complained the menus were different. Little she knew that a more recent version of Office would too have different menus/items placement anyway.

How long ago was this? There hasn't been a "more recent version of Office" for quite some time, so I suspect that this happened a while ago. Things have changed a lot, let me count the ways...

The rise of smartphones has eliminated an entire class of computer users. People who just want to do some Google searches, chat on Facebook, etc. can just use phones, and they do. (Caveat: I think a lot of people in the 30-50 age group still prefer a PC, because that's what they're used to, but that cohort is a one-off and is slowly diminishing. Furthermore, I've observed that as people near retirement, they are less interested in sitting in front of a computer screen, which will diminish this cohort relatively soon).

So who still uses a computer? I think it's just PC gamers, highschool/college students, and white-collar professionals.

PC gamers are very satisfied with the state of Linux, because games are relatively simple applications, and the Linux ecosystem has been able to provide a great compatibility environment for Windows games.

Students and professionals are less likely to be satisfied with Linux, and it's not really Linux's fault, but a lot of software just doesn't work on Linux. And even if it did, small issues like case-sensitive filesystems could easily provide enough friction to prevent these users from switching. Lastly, these users are willing to spend a modest amount of money to save them time, and a Windows PC with the cost of the OS bundled isn't exactly expensive. Windows 10 was released over 10 years ago, and these users are likely to buy a new PC within that time, meaning they'll always get the latest Windows version, so upgrading their OS isn't really something they think about.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying any of this is good or correct or moral or non-cringe, I'm just saying that this is the real reason why Linux adoption is a more complex issue these days.

Re: Zorin OS

#162

Post by jraph » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 3:41 AM UTC

gxonatano wrote: post #151

lproven wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in favor of bad design ideas from 1995 (looking at you, Start menu) For what it's worth, that's the point when your comment jumped the shark. I knew then that this was just a rant. The Start menu was a _superb_ piece of design, as was Win95 in general. If nothing else, the existence proof of this is the sheer number of other desktops that imitate the design: KDE; GNOME 1/2; MATE; Xfce; QNX Neutrino Photon; Inferno;…

> the existence proof of this is the sheer number of other desktops that imitate the design That's where you're wrong. The desktop environments that imitate Win95 elements do it to provide something familiar for their users. The KDE team is not sitting around going, "you know what was designed really well? The Start Menu!" In fact, many of the desktop environments you mention (GNOME Flashback, Cinnamon) were a conser…

> Even better, you can just tap the Super key, type a letter or two of the program, and press enter.

Most DEs do that today, including KDE, Cinnamon, Xfce (at least in some config), and Windows itself (although that last one does to much including web searches when you do this).

The categories in the start menu have its advantages, that's how I discovered what program exists and does what as a child in a KDE based distro. I fail to see what's wrong with a start menu + this feature you are citing. It does discovery + efficience very well. Gnome 3's Android-like icon grid without categories (from what I recall and from the screenshots I see) seems awful for discoverability seems awful. If you don't know the icon or the name of the program you are looking, the icon grid seems awful (although I recognize keyword search should get you there, but keyword search + the categories that other DE provide seems more useful - and today, it's rare to have deep hierarchies like in win95)

Re: Zorin OS

#163

Post by jraph » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 3:50 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #98

gxonatano wrote: post #58

I know there's a place for distros like these, designed to be familiar to users of Windows or MacOS, but to me it shows Linux at its laziest: where exciting new ideas in system and UI design are skipped over, in favor of bad design ideas from 1995 (looking at you, Start menu). On MacOS and Windows you're stuck with whatever OS UI those respective corporations decide you get—the Apple menu, the Start menu, floating wi…

The only UNIXes that I consider ever caring for the whole experience as a full stack, for users and application developers alike, were Irix, Sun NeWS, Solaris, NeXTSTEP and its evolution as OS X. Sure you can argue Linux distributions can also offer something similar, the problem is which flavours and for how long, which brings us to shipping the Linux kernel underneath Java and Web frameworks, as being the most succ…

> the problem is which flavours

Whatever distro which is pre-installed on the computer you buy, or whatever your geek acquaintance picks, or whatever you pick as a geek yourself (any mainstream distro will do).

> for how long

The lifetime of the computer in all of the cases, or, in the last case, until you want to try out something else.

Seems decent in any case.

Re: Zorin OS

#164

Post by jraph » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 4:07 AM UTC

carlosjobim wrote: post #115

jim201 wrote: post #40

I’m glad that there are distros catering towards less techy people. Linux needs this. But I take issue with selling open source projects that could otherwise be downloaded for free. The $48 Pro version resells open source software (Blender is mentioned on their website) and slaps on a few themes. Even if legal, this just seems highly unethical.

> But I take issue with selling open source projects that could otherwise be downloaded for free. Why should they concern themselves with you taking issue? What I mean is what gives you the right to have an opinion on their conduct?

I disagree with them, I find selling free software to be a pretty solid and ethical way of funding free software, but why would they not have the right to have an opinion on this?

I certainly have strong opinions about many software vendors, who distribute proprietary software, often full of ads and tracking on top of that, why would I not have the right to find that strongly unethical?

Re: Zorin OS

#165

Post by prmoustache » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 5:13 AM UTC

firesteelrain wrote: post #104

zamalek wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same story here. Purchased a System76 machine for my ex-wife's grandmother. She "enjoyed learning about the new system". As a bonus she is now completely support scam immune, one of the advantages of the year of the Linux desktop not having happened yet.

Honestly, iPad might have been better.

It depends of the person. I know many old people who struggle.with touch screens.

Re: Zorin OS

#166

Post by unpaydijk » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 5:22 AM UTC

lawlessone wrote: post #147

jeroenhd wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advantage of Zorin is that it comes with some level of Wine integration. If it detects that there's a Linux version of a Windows installer, it'll guide the user towards the Linux version instead, but opening .EXEs works quite well out of the box as well. Getting a recent version of Wine on anything but Arch-based distros without some kind of confusing intermediary is quite tricky, so making Wine somewhat usable g…

>. If it detects that there's a Linux version of a Windows installer, it'll guide the user towards the Linux version instead, My anecdotal experience with the steam and steamOS has been that the windows versions of games run better via proton than their native linux versions. One game i have didn't run even run when i was on windows, but the windows version worked in Linux..

>One game i have didn't run even run when i was on windows, but the windows version worked in Linux..

Was it an old game? Those tend to do that

>My anecdotal experience with the steam and steamOS has been that the windows versions of games run better via proton than their native linux versions.

This is very interesting, does anyone have insights into why? I can only guess the games/their engines are more mindful of optimizing their calls to the native windows APIs, which when translated turns out to be pretty efficient on the output side too

Re: Zorin OS

#167

Post by prmoustache » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 5:42 AM UTC

phendrenad2 wrote: post #161

prmoustache wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, when I installed a linux distro with xfce on her laptop after he hdd died it took my partner months to realize she wasn't using windows. I mean she only figured out libreoffice was installed instead of the pirated copy of office she used to run and complained the menus were different. Little she knew that a more recent version of Office would too have different menus/items placement anyway.

How long ago was this? There hasn't been a "more recent version of Office" for quite some time, so I suspect that this happened a while ago. Things have changed a lot, let me count the ways... The rise of smartphones has eliminated an entire class of computer users. People who just want to do some Google searches, chat on Facebook, etc. can just use phones, and they do. (Caveat: I think a lot of people in the 30-50 a…

> How long ago was this? There hasn't been a "more recent version of Office" for quite some time, so I suspect that this happened a while ago. Things have changed a lot, let me count the ways...

2 years ago but her computer had been installed at least 6 or 7 years before, that was Office 2016 period I believe. Granted the ribbon already existed but the default placements of a number of elements were slightly different than what you see in Office 365 today.

My point is that she didn't really care or realize it wasn't windows until she asked me for MS Office and I told her I couldn't install it on this Linux OS and that I didn't have any license for it. I think the respect the license part was what surprised her the most as a person who grew up in the digital age and got used to pasting random images found on the internet in social medias.

Re: Zorin OS

#168

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 6:47 AM UTC

jraph wrote: post #163

pjmlp wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only UNIXes that I consider ever caring for the whole experience as a full stack, for users and application developers alike, were Irix, Sun NeWS, Solaris, NeXTSTEP and its evolution as OS X. Sure you can argue Linux distributions can also offer something similar, the problem is which flavours and for how long, which brings us to shipping the Linux kernel underneath Java and Web frameworks, as being the most succ…

> the problem is which flavours Whatever distro which is pre-installed on the computer you buy, or whatever your geek acquaintance picks, or whatever you pick as a geek yourself (any mainstream distro will do). > for how long The lifetime of the computer in all of the cases, or, in the last case, until you want to try out something else. Seems decent in any case.

Worked very well for netbooks, with OEM specific distros.

It was a vision on what something like Android would be.

Re: Zorin OS

#169

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 6:54 AM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #148

pjmlp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confused over here, wasn't the answer "any of them"?!?

That wasn't my answer, pay attention to people's username ;) You haven't responded to the rest of my post, and your response of "If I can't do it on Kali Linux then it isn't possible because the poster said any Linux distro" honestly leads me to believe you're more interested in nitpicking arguments to "win", rather than debating and understanding. But, I'm going to be generous with my time and energy here and answer…

My mistake then, doesn't change the point of my remark, as the OP was Indeed asserting any distro.

Your lengthy response is a good example of Linux forums, that eventually I got tired to visit, though.

Remember my first distro used kernel 1.0.9, and I still use Linux distros at work, just not on my own laptops, so I am quite aware of the tweaking that never went away.

Re: Zorin OS

#170

Post by mixmastamyk » Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 7:02 AM UTC

qn9n wrote: post #121

xarope wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

minus the cost of windows minus the cost of supporting windows minus the cost of malware and virii on windows hmm, so that works pretty well, IMHO :-P

Windows is like 80? For the average user the average cost of supporting windows is basically 80. You can get windows laptops for $100–$500 just get one of those and put Linux on it? Not a single person's grandmother (except maybe that one that plays Skyrim) needs a $1400 laptop, total waste of resources.

Not everyone is a broke college student. Especially grandmas.