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US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

arstechnica.com

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Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#111
I've used a learning platform called Brilliant in the past. The cancellation process was so convoluted that it was impossible to cancel the account. Dark patterns and confusing language.

They refused to refund me and after I thought I'd cancelled and I had to run a charge back from my bank.

This is nefarious behaviour on their part and consumers need to be protected from it.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#112

FYI: Everyone just use privacy.com It allows you to make virtual cards that are single use. So if a merchant keeps trying to charge you, it will automatically decline. Until the powers that be gets its act together and stops allowing businesses to run all over us...this is the way.

Never heard of this; thanks for the tip!

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#113

From a different article [1]: > But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit said the FTC erred in its rulemaking process by failing to produce a preliminary regulatory analysis, a statutory requirement for rules whose annual effect on the national economy would exceed $100 million. > The FTC had argued that it was not required to prepare the preliminary analysis because its initial estimate of the rule’s imp…

Devil is in the details, they said each company would have to pay for less than 23 hrs to a low level engineer to avoid the $100 mil impact. How much time do you think an intern would need to render a button on screen that says "cancel" in red mapped to an already implemented function in the code base. Especially with trillions poured into the AI? This is non sense and horse shit, and these bench full of idiots know…

These “bench full of idiots” are not blind to the fact that there are deceptive practices regarding subscriptions. FTC didn’t do their job right unfortunately and here we are. Now, new administration and it’s doubtful this will get picked up again barring any law passed by Congress.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#114
post #95

From a different article [1]: > But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit said the FTC erred in its rulemaking process by failing to produce a preliminary regulatory analysis, a statutory requirement for rules whose annual effect on the national economy would exceed $100 million. > The FTC had argued that it was not required to prepare the preliminary analysis because its initial estimate of the rule’s imp…

It's interesting that businesses can build an obviously toxic subscription model that robs consumers of both money and time, but when asked to change it now we have to consider their costs. I understand the idea behind the threshold for changing rules but this still feels very broken. There is a constant struggle of having to do everything perfectly to make any positive progress, but bad actors can operate however th…

While I share your frustration, I don't think we should lower the bar for positive progress. Because that's how one becomes a bad actor themselves.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#115

I should be able to go into my bank or card service online. View a list of all my subscriptions. Click on a subscription (or select all). And cancel. If there is a card that offers this let me know because I'll be switching immediately.

Here in the Netherlands, via my bank I can list all of my pre-approved transfers and block them. I'm pretty sure every bank here is required to support this. PayPal also has this feature.

I recently had to cut down on expenses starting with extraneous subscriptions and charitable donations, of which I had dozens. Many ad a click-to-cancel or at least fill-out-a-form-to-cancel process, but some of them said 'call us'. Then I discovered that I could cut them all off from my side!

I got a few 'hey your donation stopped' messages, and answered the first ones, but they all eventually went away.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#116

I should be able to go into my bank or card service online. View a list of all my subscriptions. Click on a subscription (or select all). And cancel. If there is a card that offers this let me know because I'll be switching immediately.

In theory I can do this with standing orders / direct debit in the UK and there are some subscriptions where "cancelling the direct debit" is the official way to cancel. There should be no need for firms to reinvent recurring payments and store card details for their own ad hoc system. I don't know if it might disadvantage some people not familiar with managing direct debits though.

However, many years ago, after an hour on hold failing to cancel Virgin ADSL I just cancelled the direct debit instead. They put a debt recovery firm on me! The direct debit was charged at the start of each billing period so it wasn't a non payment thing. I recall there used to be more indefensible "notice periods" for cancellation which were just pure scummy ways to force feed unwanted services but I don't think this had one.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#117
post #106
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all, those costs are eventually going to be passed down to consumers No they aren't. The ease with which you can continue to charge consumers without providing value to them directly affects the total amount of those charges (also, profits is a variable)

Suppose I am selling magazine subscriptions. I basically already follow all of the FTC’s new rules, because I’m not trying to cheat. But the new rules are pages and pages of amendments to pages and pages of existing rules. Those rules are complicated and detailed. How can I be _sure_ that _all_ of my marketing materials are compliant with these new rules, which detail exactly what information I must disclose to my cu…

> I don’t see how you can argue that these costs _can’t_ be passed down to the consumers.

Because you've ignored the profits factor and have supposed away the other factor I mentioned as part of your hypothetical

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#118

FYI: Everyone just use privacy.com It allows you to make virtual cards that are single use. So if a merchant keeps trying to charge you, it will automatically decline. Until the powers that be gets its act together and stops allowing businesses to run all over us...this is the way.

Great, another service that collects my purchase information.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#119

FYI: Everyone just use privacy.com It allows you to make virtual cards that are single use. So if a merchant keeps trying to charge you, it will automatically decline. Until the powers that be gets its act together and stops allowing businesses to run all over us...this is the way.

> So if a merchant keeps trying to charge you, it will automatically decline.

I learned this the hard way with the New York Times doing this, but merchants can “force settle” a transaction if they want and it’ll override the decline they get. This is a violation of the merchant agreement but companies do it anyway (like NYT did to me). Privacy isn’t as bullet-proof as you would think.

Re: US Court nullifies FTC requirement for click-to-cancel

#120
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are usually charged once per agreed period (never seen it any other way)

Adobe is an example where a yearly discounted subscription is billed monthly

They'll have to change their model or implement like a breakup fee depending of what would has been missed if you didn't have a discount.
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