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Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

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Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#91

Post by sardine5 »

LWIRVoltage wrote: post #89
sardine5 wrote: post #68

A bit different, as it's mainly for voice - but I made an app 'Murmur : Bluetooth Group Calls' - that lets you hold group voice calls and message via a mesh of Bluetooth LE connections. It's available on Android and iOS. https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/murmur-bluetooth-group-calls/i... Doesn't really get any downloads, so not sure there's much demand for this - but I use it with some shokz bone conducting headphones fo…

Okay, this is neat! A true mesh networking bluetooth app- The other one that's notable, Briar is super impressive - but i think it doesn't actually have proper mesh capability due to difficulties with how devices handle things (See: https://old.reddit.com/r/Briar/comments/gxiffy/what_exactly_... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43363031 } Anyway, -Question: I take it Murmur is end to end encrypted fully? Also, ju…

It's AES128 encrypted with a key derived from the group password.

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#92

Post by pjerem »

thejazzman wrote: post #43
OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood this argument. Apple spends billions of dollars vetting their store for high quality apps. You can't even verify the build you get off Github was compiled from the same posted source. As much as people want to be "leet" and run 3rd party software, it's inherently insecure and that's why Apple shuts it down.

They shut it down because 30%. There was a version of Apple at a point in time where I agree with your rhetoric. They have completely lost credibility to uphold that position IMO. Apple definitely does not spend billions guaranteeing "quality". To prove my point, where does Apple even define what they consider "quality"? How can you quantify such an aubjecrive and ambiguous term? They spend billions paying out the 70…

Also, the store is fulfilled with _billions_ of shitty apps.

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#93

Post by pjerem »

woleium wrote: post #52
noman-land wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might sound crazy but some people want the freedom to use their belongings however they want instead of having artificial child locks placed on them by trillion dollar corporate daddies.

But, sadly, as evidenced by apple’s share price, not enough people.

That’s only because there is only one alternative that is more or less equally shitty (Android) and no room for any competition whatsoever.

It’s not like people really have options to choose when it comes to choosing a smartphone.

It’s easy to have a growing share price when you are a duopoly. You don’t have to serve your users.

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#94

Post by wickedsight »

roshin wrote: post #85
sardine5 wrote: post #68

A bit different, as it's mainly for voice - but I made an app 'Murmur : Bluetooth Group Calls' - that lets you hold group voice calls and message via a mesh of Bluetooth LE connections. It's available on Android and iOS. https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/murmur-bluetooth-group-calls/i... Doesn't really get any downloads, so not sure there's much demand for this - but I use it with some shokz bone conducting headphones fo…

Cool technology, but what is the usecase? I can imagine traveling abroad without a sim and using it as described. But is it any better than using the cellular network (when you have access to it)?

On festival sites and other crowded events, cellular sometimes gets quite saturated and slow. This might be a good alternative.

Also, I could see it as a useful tool in emergency situations. But a lot of people would need to use it to be actually useful.

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#95

Post by eternityforest »

kragen wrote: post #78
eternityforest wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem with BLE is the insane amounts of packet loss with extended advertising, even with perfect SNR many devices seem to just kind of not have the receive windows lined up right and drop 10% of packets. The range is perfectly good for a lot of applications where one might actually want to not use the internet, just not all of them.

Dropping 10% of packets sounds like a trivial problem to solve. That's not a range that requires fancy things like erasure coding or even SACK; it's easily handled by just retransmitting packets that don't get acknowledged.

You need to track individual subscribers at that point, which uses lots of ram and could use lots of airtime, heuristics like resending until you get 1 reply like Meshtastic don't work well.

If there's receive window timing issues you can't assume two nodes right next two each other will get the same subset of packets most of the time.

My solution is just to resend every message four times, and not bother with protocol layer reliability for BLE at all, the packet rate is low and all the acknowledgements use airtime anyway.

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#96

Post by moneywaters »

I’ve been toying with a concept inspired by Apple’s Find My network: Imagine a decentralized, delay-tolerant messaging system where messages hop device-to-device (e.g., via Bluetooth, UWB, Wi-Fi Direct), similar to how “Find My” relays location via nearby iPhones.

Now add a twist: • Senders pay a small fee to send a message. • Relaying devices earn a micro-payment (could be tokens, sats, etc.) for carrying the message one hop further. • End-to-end encrypted, fully decentralized, optionally anonymous.

Basically, a “postal network” built on people’s phones, without needing a traditional internet connection. Works best in areas with patchy or no internet, or under censorship.

Obvious challenges: • Latency and reliability (it’s not real-time). • Abuse/spam prevention. • Power consumption and user opt-in. • Viable incentive structures.

What do you think? Is this viable? Any real-world use cases where this might be actually useful — or is it just a neat academic toy?

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#97

Post by imoverclocked »

syntaxing wrote: post #4

Whoa this is really neat. I’ve been trying to get into Meshtastic but it’s hard to convince others when you need special hardware. Would be super neat if Apple did something similar. Shouldn’t be too hard since the AirTags use the same idea? Would also be neat if there was a way to build a LoRA proxy to extend the range. I might give this a try with my meshtastic devices.

Once you have brought LoRa into the mix, you might as well just ask for p2p cell connectivity. Our phones could totally talk to each other over reasonable distances with no extra infrastructure.

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#98

Post by littlecranky67 »

moneywaters wrote: post #96

I’ve been toying with a concept inspired by Apple’s Find My network: Imagine a decentralized, delay-tolerant messaging system where messages hop device-to-device (e.g., via Bluetooth, UWB, Wi-Fi Direct), similar to how “Find My” relays location via nearby iPhones. Now add a twist: • Senders pay a small fee to send a message. • Relaying devices earn a micro-payment (could be tokens, sats, etc.) for carrying the messag…

Neat academic toy - unless you can predict why a large-scale, long-term internet outage should happen.

Aside from that, most of what your concept includes (but uses Internet instead of BT) exists with Nostr+Lightning.

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#99

Post by Tepix »

kragen wrote: post #76

Technical whitepaper: https://github.com/jackjackbits/bitchat/blob/main/WHITEPAPER... Presumably that is the key to getting out of the Apple ghetto.

From the whitepaper: "bitchat implements a custom mesh networking protocol over BLE"

I wonder why they didn‘t implement the BLE mesh networking standard released in 2017 by the Bluetooth SIG.

Re: Bitchat – A decentralized messaging app that works over Bluetooth mesh networks

#100

Post by jacobgkau »

moneywaters wrote: post #96

I’ve been toying with a concept inspired by Apple’s Find My network: Imagine a decentralized, delay-tolerant messaging system where messages hop device-to-device (e.g., via Bluetooth, UWB, Wi-Fi Direct), similar to how “Find My” relays location via nearby iPhones. Now add a twist: • Senders pay a small fee to send a message. • Relaying devices earn a micro-payment (could be tokens, sats, etc.) for carrying the messag…

> Works best in areas with patchy or no internet, or under censorship.

The biggest problem I immediately foresee is that this sounds backwards. It doesn't work best in areas with patchy or no internet, it works best in areas with lots of participating devices. It's most needed in areas with patchy or no internet, but those areas are likely to be the opposite of the areas with lots of participating devices.

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