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Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion

xfinity.com

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Re: Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion

#61

Post by landl0rd »

aspenmayer wrote: post #54
dylan604 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I left my device at home?

With enough signals, gait recognition for example is possible, and those same signals could be corroborated with presence or absence of concomitant device signals to determine if your device is moving with your person, and if not, to then flag this for enhanced monitoring if evasion is suspected.

The point is every single thing I own should be "on my side". My car should not store my location history. My wifi router should not track presence and movement. My printer should not add any watermarks or telltale dots. My stuff should actively make it difficult or impossible for hackers, advertisers, or law enforcement to recover any useful information.

This means, respectively: ensure personal info is stored securely so hackers can recover little. Don't transmit info to remote servers to limit what advertisers get. And just store as little as possible in the first place because this is the legal means to have little to subpoena or discover.

Useful info, when absolutely necessary, should be locked behind a password, as constitutional rights preclude law enforcement from making someone disclose it.

Re: Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion

#62

Post by Aurornis »

josho wrote: post #29
jacobgkau wrote: post #2

> Subject to applicable law, Comcast may disclose information generated by your WiFi Motion to third parties without further notice to you in connection with any law enforcement investigation or proceeding, any dispute to which Comcast is a party, or pursuant to a court order or subpoena. Sounds like, at least in some limited circumstances (using the provided WiFi AP, having this feature turned on, etc), ISPs are goi…

The solution here shouldn't be technical; it should be legal. If we rely on the technical path, Comcast can achieve the same by how many active IPv6 addresses are in use. Even if you aren't using your phone, the device is going to be constantly pinging services like email, and your ISP can use that to piece together how many people are at home. If we rely on legal protection, then not only Comcast, but all ISPs will…

> The solution here shouldn't be technical; it should be legal.

The parent commenter was highlighting that law enforcement can compel them to provide the data.

The customer has to opt-in to WiFi motion sensing to have the data tracked. If you see something appear in an app, you should assume law enforcement can compel the company to provide that data. It's not really a surprise.

> If we rely on legal protection, then not only Comcast, but all ISPs will be prohibited from spying on their customers.

To be clear, the headline on HN is editorialized. The linked article is instructions for opting in to WiFi motion sensing and going through the setup and calibration. It's a feature they provide for customers to enable and use for themselves.

Re: Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion

#63

Post by frollogaston »

timewizard wrote: post #40
josho wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution here shouldn't be technical; it should be legal. If we rely on the technical path, Comcast can achieve the same by how many active IPv6 addresses are in use. Even if you aren't using your phone, the device is going to be constantly pinging services like email, and your ISP can use that to piece together how many people are at home. If we rely on legal protection, then not only Comcast, but all ISPs will…

It doesn't require IPv6. The modem is just as aware of all the private IPv4 addresses on your network as well as all the public IPv6 ones. Unless you put your own gateway (layer 3 switch, wifi ap, linux router) in front of it.

That would require Comcast to have access to your router, or more precisely, the NAT.

Re: Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion

#64

Post by Havoc »

rancar2 wrote: post #28

This reminds of an MIT-licensed library that was Vibe-coded and released three weeks ago. The source is available here: https://github.com/ruvnet/wifi-densepose

Thought I could integrate that into home assistant...till I got to the 78% GPU utilization part. Bit heavy for 24/7

Re: Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion

#65

Post by frollogaston »

josho wrote: post #29
jacobgkau wrote: post #2

> Subject to applicable law, Comcast may disclose information generated by your WiFi Motion to third parties without further notice to you in connection with any law enforcement investigation or proceeding, any dispute to which Comcast is a party, or pursuant to a court order or subpoena. Sounds like, at least in some limited circumstances (using the provided WiFi AP, having this feature turned on, etc), ISPs are goi…

The solution here shouldn't be technical; it should be legal. If we rely on the technical path, Comcast can achieve the same by how many active IPv6 addresses are in use. Even if you aren't using your phone, the device is going to be constantly pinging services like email, and your ISP can use that to piece together how many people are at home. If we rely on legal protection, then not only Comcast, but all ISPs will…

Ipv6? I ain't enabling that anyway

Re: Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion

#66

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #10

I don't want my ISP doing this to me, but it sounds like something pretty cool to do myself. Does anybody know what the current state of "self-hosting" this kind of functionality is?

I am also super interested for the personal use case. What is the resolution? Can I track my cat through the house? See when they go to the feeder? Count my own bathroom visits?

Re: Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion

#68

Post by nemomarx »

frollogaston wrote: post #63
timewizard wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't require IPv6. The modem is just as aware of all the private IPv4 addresses on your network as well as all the public IPv6 ones. Unless you put your own gateway (layer 3 switch, wifi ap, linux router) in front of it.

That would require Comcast to have access to your router, or more precisely, the NAT.

Comcast sells a router gateway combination device that's probably required for this motion sensing anyway. If you have that they could already check device counts and in fact their Xfinity app lists connected devices in detail.

Re: Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion

#69

Post by nick__m »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #46
dylan604 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So use their router, but connect your own to it. Then turn off the WiFi in their equipment

I'm doing the first bit, but I can't turn off the wifi -- only stop broadcasting my "personal" network. And actually, as I went in to make sure that was the case, I saw that broadcasting of my personal network had been forcibly turned back on. Lovely!

If you cannot disable it and you don't trust the wifi but need the service, wrap the isp provided box it in aluminum foil and ground that foil ( no need to try to solder on the foil, an alligator clip is more practical), the wifi will still be on but it will be completely blind. Just make sure it doesn't overheat.

Re: Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion

#70

Post by johnklos »

I've been telling people for ages to not trust ISP provided hardware. Notice the vague language here which means they reserve the right to share private information for anything that might be called an investigation, or for any dispute which includes them (didn't pay your bill?), or a subpoena.

    Subject to applicable law, Comcast may disclose information generated by your WiFi Motion to third parties without further notice to you in connection with any law enforcement investigation or proceeding, any dispute to which Comcast is a party, or pursuant to a court order or subpoena.
Plus, sharing isn't limited to a court or law enforcemnt agency - they reserve the right to share information with any third party.

This is scary, particularly considering how the current administration wants to weaponize everything they possibly can.

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