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Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

psychiatrymargins.com

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Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#171

Post by talentedcoin »

mandmandam wrote: post #132
talentedcoin wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Dangerous misconception”? Get out of here with that. Cannabis is dangerous for schizoaffective people. Why are people that smoke pot so tiresome about this? Just accept that it’s not good for everyone!

> “Dangerous misconception”? Get out of here with that. I will not. The demonization of cannabis has led directly to it becoming high THC and low CBD, as I said. It also has lead to it often being tainted with all manner of adulterants, from ketamine to glass beads to plaster dust to worse. > Cannabis is dangerous for schizoaffective people. CBD is a leading target of research for it's anti-psychotic properties; and…

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Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#172

Post by aspenmayer »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #139
mandmandam wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's difficult to hear theories from folks that don't have as much of a stake. It's not a theory that CBD has anti-psychotic properties. It certainly does , we just don't fully understand why . My theory is that it will someday be part of treatment plans; and as someone with skin in the game I would hope that you care enough to learn a bit more about it. The comparison to anti-vaxxers with autism in the family is n…

> is not appropriate here Actually, if the agenda of pushing CBD therapy applies, then it is. I know a number of folks that have autistic children, of various levels, from "nerd," to "wheelchair-bound." Their parents are usually absolute saints, regardless of their political views, or misinformation diets, and live in constant pain; making daily sacrifices that I don't think many folks here, can even comprehend. We w…

> The real villains, here, are the people that have secondary agendas (like legalizing drugs, or pushing political agendas)

The natural state of affairs is silence, as plants don't care about humans. The actual history of plant illegalization is inherently political, and inextricably racist in America due to Nixon.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#173

Post by cjbgkagh »

hopelite wrote: post #128
cjbgkagh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The huge number of them who smoke cigarettes prior to their first episode - a different form of self medication. 90% of people with it smoke and there is research indicating a greater likelhood prior to first episode. I’ll have to look up those numbers though. (Edit, seems about 60% at a time when the average US population was at 20%)

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I think the main problem is conflation and averaging out experiences to the general population. There are distinct subsets of people who react to things very differently to the others and the focus should be on first finding out if someone is in a particular group.

I do a lot of DIY psychopharmacology, mostly modafinil and amitriptyline, in a successful effort to reduce ME/CFS/hEDS related brain fog. I’ve given modafinil to normal people and they tend not to notice any effects where for me it’s a super strong drug that’ll keep me wired unless I take other drugs to calm down.

I think quite a large subset of human behavior is seeking self medication for genetic anxiety disorders and I think in knowing the mechanisms people can avoid stumbling around in the dark and go directly towards things that work.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#174

Post by cosmic_cheese »

hopelite wrote: post #128
cjbgkagh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The huge number of them who smoke cigarettes prior to their first episode - a different form of self medication. 90% of people with it smoke and there is research indicating a greater likelhood prior to first episode. I’ll have to look up those numbers though. (Edit, seems about 60% at a time when the average US population was at 20%)

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What are your thoughts on people who self-medicate with caffeine due to their baseline ability to focus being reduced (which in modern society is cause for trouble)? That’s the reason for starting caffeine use for many.

My use is also light and fully legal, but personally I’m not sure that this is something that’s so binary. It seems more likely to sit on a spectrum, as most things do, and is largely dependent on the individual due to wide differences in brain and body function. It’s the same reason why the prescription drug that works wonders for one person and do nothing or worse, be detrimental for somebody else. We’re not all identical units of a particular model rolling off an assembly line somewhere, after all.

So I guess I would say that yes, we should be more conscientious of how substances (even those that are common) interact with our minds, but I have a hard time labeling them all as harmful. It’s just too broad of a brush.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#175

Post by Mistletoe »

> Let’s say schizophrenia is associated with a 50% loss of reproductive fitness in 1% of the population (and there is no offsetting benefit in the rest of the population), then it would take roughly 180 generations to cut the rate in half and about 560 generations to reduce it to one-tenth of its original value (Mitteroecker & Merola, 2024). We’ve had a comparable number of generations since the Neolithic era, but as far as we know, the prevalence of schizophrenia has not decreased in the manner anticipated.

What if the number we experience now IS 1/10 of what it used to be? Would explain a lot of religious talking to God in the past.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#176

Post by throw-qqqqq »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #111

>The persistence of schizophrenia is an evolutionary enigma how much schizophrenia is actually going to manifest in peak procreating years?

I have two relatives with schizophrenia. Both had onset in their mid 20s.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#177

Post by jajko »

SoftTalker wrote: post #77
jjallen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is at least partially genetic. We have a friend whose sister has it and she went to genetics counselors before having kids. They told her that because her sister has it that her kids had a 20% likelihood of developing it. Obviously 20% is way higher than normal.

Be sure you understand what this means. 20% higher chance (of a 1% baseline) is vastly different from a 20% chance.

I think its pretty clear which case is being discussed. 20% increase in chance is not something to generally worry about.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#178

Post by reactordev »

Loughla wrote: post #167
jajko wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my ex' father triggered a lifelong episode of schyzophrenia by excessive drinking during mandatory military service around age 18-19. So i'd say there are number of triggers

Alternate theory; schizophrenia tends to manifest in men between 18 and 22. The drinking was him self medicating because of symptoms he was experiencing?

Final thesis: schizophrenia was starting to manifest and the drinking was him self medicating, not knowing it was making the schizophrenia worse and causing further harm.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#179

Post by cosmic_cheese »

giantg2 wrote: post #168
lotyrin wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to what belief? That it is possible for there to be medical interventions or substances that are entirely risk-free regardless of your individual circumstances, potentially hidden allergies, or other known or unknown contraindications? Was anyone ever under such an impression?

"Was anyone ever under such an impression?" If you've ever listened to some of people pushing or debating psychedelics, or natural remedies, or even "totally safe" vaccines, then it should be readily apparent.

Vaccines are a bit of a different can of worms in that first generally, they’re well-studied and the risks are reasonably well known, and second the impact isn’t solely personal — you’re trading off in most cases a small risk for the betterment of society — maintaining herd immunity, reducing capacity for spreading, etc depending on vaccine. The lives of many others can be negatively impacted, in some cases fatally, by one’s personal choice to not partake. There’s a certain amount of social responsibility involved.

Psychoactives and homeopathy have plenty of capacity to be harmful and aren’t necessarily anywhere near as well studied, but at least their effects are more bounded to the individual. (This does not however justify pushing them blindly.)

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#180

Post by aspenmayer »

natnat wrote: post #153

This reminds me of the "Natural engagement pattern" sketch that Mark Zuckerberg made about facebook content back in 2018: https://www.facebook.com/notes/751449002072082/ Content gets more engagement as it gets closer to the "policy line" of getting banned, and in a competitive information environment (an engagement maximizing algorithm) you end up with a lot of content close to the border of what's allowed.

Facebook is hostile to archive sites, so I am quoting this link for discussion purposes:

https://pastebin.com/S4bWZpma

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