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Launch HN: Issen (YC F24) – Personal AI language tutor

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Re: Launch HN: Issen (YC F24) – Personal AI language tutor

#211

Post by candiddevmike »

sotix wrote: post #207
anavat wrote: post #20

Thanks for working on this! Language learning really needs a breakthrough. Now, I tried the web app and chose to learn Greek as a beginner. And while I had better experience with your app than with ChatGPT or Gemini voice modes, I still got lost 5 minutes in because the AI tutor doesn't seem to have a plan for me, nor does it "see" my struggles. For example, after asking me about a hobby, it gives me a long sentence…

Language Transfer[0] will continue to be a better resource than any AI course. It’s very hard to beat a human that has put in time crafting a logical way to teach a language with the appropriate ramp ups. The Greek course on there is fantastic. And it’s free with zero ads. Best language learning tool I’ve ever used period. [0]: https://www.languagetransfer.org/

What's the best way to listen to this on your mobile in a way that will remember your location? SoundCloud app?

Re: Launch HN: Issen (YC F24) – Personal AI language tutor

#212

Post by runarberg »

masspro wrote: post #199

I don't think I can trust TTS for language learning. I could be internalizing wrong pronunciation, and I wouldn't know. One time I tried Duolingo for Japanese already knowing a bit. To their credit I assumed it was recorded clips, until it read 'oyogu' as something like 'oyNHYAOgu', like it concatenated two syllable clips that don't go together. If I didn't already know, would I be trying to study and replicate that…

Also a Japanese learner here—albeit a beginner. As I understand it, the pitch accent is about stress, languages can stress a syllable with length, volume, pitch, etc. Spanish uses vowel length, Icelandic uses volume, English uses a combination of length and volume, and Swedish (just like Japanese) uses pitch. Just like in English if you put the wrong stress on the word it can range anything from sounding foreign to being incomprehensible. (Aside: I always remember trying to say the name of the band Duran Duran to an English speaker, while putting the stress on the first syllable like is normal in Icelandic, but my listener had no idea what I was saying, it took probably 30 attempts before I was corrected with the correct stress).

I think Japanese is somewhat special though for a large number of homonyms (i.e. words that are spelled the same) so speaking with the correct pitch becomes somewhat more important.

Re: Launch HN: Issen (YC F24) – Personal AI language tutor

#213

Post by gngoo »

I tried it, but I got stuck. I am trying to learn this Language, and I know very little of it. So we are having a conversation, and I just get totally lost. Would be cool if it switches back to English and then actually teaches me what all the words and sentences mean. Now I just closed the app, and going back to my usual language learning curriculum - generally, I would uninstall the app. But now I might just try it again in a few weeks from now.

Re: Launch HN: Issen (YC F24) – Personal AI language tutor

#214

Post by thinkingtoilet »

mariano54 wrote: post #3
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #2

>We didn’t want to focus too much on gamification. Thank you so much for this. Duolingo is literally unbearable because it's so gamified. I'll try it out later. I've seen a few of these apps, can I seamlessly go between my native language and the language I'm trying to learn? If I am trying to learn Hindi, can I ask a question in English in the middle of a conversation?

Yes, we've spent a lot of time getting the STT and TTS to work seamlessly in multilingual, it works pretty well!

I said I would use it and report back. Unfortunately, the experience was not great for me. I told it multiple times I'm a beginner and not speak in full, long sentences in my target language, and it would remember that for one response maybe, then switch right back to full sentences. I had to keep telling it I couldn't understand it and that I'm a beginner. After the 4th or 5th time I gave up.

Re: Launch HN: Issen (YC F24) – Personal AI language tutor

#215

Post by kiririn7 »

mariano54 wrote: post #104
jmyeet wrote: post #81

So this is the AI gold rush and of course this isn't the first AI language product I've seen of course. No hate to you or your product but I have a question. If AI succeeds, will we even need language learning? Language learning is notoriously difficult and time-consuming. We're rapidly approaching a future like Star Trek of universal translators. If so, what is the realistic future for AI language learning products?

I think so. Language learning is not just about practicality, it's about knowledge, culture, respect, and connection between people of different countries. If people have more free time and travel more, I expect language learning to grow. Plus, you can't do auto translation for languages like Japanese where the grammar is reversed. Auto translation has fundamental limitations.

you cant create a machine that thinks like a human. machines have fundemental limitations

Re: Launch HN: Issen (YC F24) – Personal AI language tutor

#216

Post by glandium »

iandanforth wrote: post #117
antonaf wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I can understand and empathize with your experience. Quite honestly our current focus is more for B1+ students. That 0 -> 1 / bootstrapping of the language is much better served by traditional material that is less talking / listening-heavy.

This is demonstrably false. Natural language acquisition is almost entirely listening and talking. The fastest and most consistently effective way to learn a language is immersion. The reason traditional material doesn't attempt immersive techniques is because it is much much easier to print a static book than it is to produce interactive and adaptive content. The promise and potential of LLM based language learning…

> Natural language acquisition is almost entirely listening and talking.

And it's bootstrapped by 1+ year of listening before being even able to speak, let alone talk intelligibly. That's not really an appealing process to anyone beyond that age.

Re: Launch HN: Issen (YC F24) – Personal AI language tutor

#217

Post by glandium »

runarberg wrote: post #212
masspro wrote: post #199

I don't think I can trust TTS for language learning. I could be internalizing wrong pronunciation, and I wouldn't know. One time I tried Duolingo for Japanese already knowing a bit. To their credit I assumed it was recorded clips, until it read 'oyogu' as something like 'oyNHYAOgu', like it concatenated two syllable clips that don't go together. If I didn't already know, would I be trying to study and replicate that…

Also a Japanese learner here—albeit a beginner. As I understand it, the pitch accent is about stress, languages can stress a syllable with length, volume, pitch, etc. Spanish uses vowel length, Icelandic uses volume, English uses a combination of length and volume, and Swedish (just like Japanese) uses pitch. Just like in English if you put the wrong stress on the word it can range anything from sounding foreign to b…

Somewhat more important, but as someone with decent Japanese who knows about pitch accent but can barely hear the difference in real time, and never actively learned it except for the few well known examples like bridge/chopstick, I don't think it matters all that much. Yes, you'll sound foreign. But you'll be understood nevertheless, in the vast majority of cases.

Re: Launch HN: Issen (YC F24) – Personal AI language tutor

#218

Post by shazron »

The beginner experience (like others mentioned) is not there, at all. It's as if I was dropped into a foreign country, and forced to talk. Sure, I'm going to flail around, and maybe get frustrated, and maybe with some hand gestures get my point across in real life.

But this is not real life - I tried to "flag" the tutor with sentences that I don't understand, and I am way over my head, and it just chugs along, with long sentences, totally unaware.

The service should not advertise itself as having a beginner level at all, in my opinion.

Re: Launch HN: Issen (YC F24) – Personal AI language tutor

#220

Post by runarberg »

glandium wrote: post #217
runarberg wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a Japanese learner here—albeit a beginner. As I understand it, the pitch accent is about stress, languages can stress a syllable with length, volume, pitch, etc. Spanish uses vowel length, Icelandic uses volume, English uses a combination of length and volume, and Swedish (just like Japanese) uses pitch. Just like in English if you put the wrong stress on the word it can range anything from sounding foreign to b…

Somewhat more important, but as someone with decent Japanese who knows about pitch accent but can barely hear the difference in real time, and never actively learned it except for the few well known examples like bridge/chopstick, I don't think it matters all that much. Yes, you'll sound foreign. But you'll be understood nevertheless, in the vast majority of cases.

Speaking of bridge/chopsticks, I created a video to try to spot the difference my self a couple of months ago:

https://imgur.com/KJXanqc

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