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I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

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Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#261

Post by CamperBob2 »

dinfinity wrote: post #162
originalvichy wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the part about signals jamming in the article? The reason the attack on airfields worked is precisely because they operate inland and not on the frontline. Cellular networks not only can be jammed but towers are a priority target. That’s why Starlink is/was so crucial. Even GPS is jammed so independent flight can be impossible with cheap components. The thermite drones do attack forested areas on the far…

> Did you miss the part about signals jamming in the article? "Drones also operate in a cluttered segment of the electromagnetic spectrum. First-person view drones use unencrypted analog radio signals, and in hot parts of the front, as many as a dozen drone teams may be competing for use of a handful of frequencies (a consequence of using cheaper components)." The currently used FPV drones use consumer level ass comm…

Dense forest scenarios aside, it seems to me that an FPV drone could perhaps serve best as an adjunct to mortar fire and other artillery, rather than as a replacement. If you knew exactly where your drone was, it could basically assume the role of a forward observer.

The article says that GPS is largely hopeless on their particular battlefield, though, so some other means of accurate positioning would probably be needed.

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#262

Post by ahartmetz »

inglor_cz wrote: post #151
speeder wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw some fascinating videos explaining that the terrain caused the war in first place. The huge border between Russia and Ukraine is completely flat grassland. This means that to Russia, Ukraine joining NATO is an unacceptable risk because that border is impossible to defend against NATO tank invasion, and the flatness go all the way to Moscow. A lot of people on internet keep poking fun at Russia inadequate tanks…

I would say that the events of Russo-Ukrainian war have shown that even a lot of tanks (and NATO does not have anywhere near as many as Russia did, the former Soviet stockpile was absolutely massive) aren't the crushing force that they used to be in Manstein's and Guderian's time. Of course Putin is a bit old and may think in old patterns... On the other hand, I believe Russia made itself very vulnerable by letting i…

It's hard to tell for sure about the tanks, the Russian army used really shitty tactics. Tanks are supposed to be used with infantry support to avert "cheap shots" with short range anti-tank weapons. Turkey managed to lose a few Leopards in a similar way. Just Leopards with nothing hanging out in enemy territory.

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#263

Post by ben_w »

fennecbutt wrote: post #190
sensanaty wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly unrelated, but reading the "product" page is crazy to me. So much about lethal radii, kill zones and stuff like that. Wild, couldn't ever picture myself working on something like this and sleeping well at night

I would. But I would be hesitant to if I got wind that it was being sold to a bad government, or that my government was a bad government/intended then for misuse. As a quiet gay nerd I'd love for there to be no war, no bullies. But unfortunately we live in a world where our species evolved from monkeys and we still often act like it. If my usually peaceful tribe needs weapons to defend itself when attacked then I'm a…

It's very easy to mistake one's own government for the good guys.

20 or so years ago, my degree's optionally-mandatory* industrial placement year had me interviewing at Lockheed Martin.

I didn't get it, and in retrospect, given what is now coming to light about UK misbehaviour in Iraq**, I'm glad I didn't.

Unfortunately, I don't know what to do about this, as you're correct about the world we live in.

* tax thing

** https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/5/12/uk-veterans-allege-...

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#264

Post by throwawayffffas »

ashoeafoot wrote: post #225
vasac wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tank armor can be good as it gets, the problem is you can't have good armor everywhere on the tank otherwise it would weight hundreds of tons. So a small drone doesn't need to penetrate tank where it's best protected but to disable it (hit APU, tracks, engine...).

Obvious solution, make the tank amour a drone crawling around and building up in direction of danger?

The obvious solution, is duct tape a bunch of corrugated steel around the tank, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_tank

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#265

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

originalvichy wrote: post #77

FPV drones for combat are a hot flash in the pan. They have had a major effect for now, but naturally as these countermeasures evolve, so weakens their effect. I keep telling people that the terrain and the strategies that Russians use is the primary reason for the effectiveness. Mortars and artillery already handle the same requirements as the author says. The reason they are effective in 2024-25 is that the drip-dr…

Great insight in this comment - in the 21st century wars are so unique that hi-tech weapons emerge specifically for certain battlefield applications.

I.e. just one country over, just one slightly different conflict between different actors would require completely different looking-feeling weapon systems.

It’s not something you think about, usually - so much of what we see used is made for asymmetrical warfare.

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#266

Post by throwawayffffas »

koonsolo wrote: post #98
throwawayffffas wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not more challenging than counter battery against teams firing Javelins or other portable anti tank weapons.Or teams using Switchblades. FPVs are man portable guided munitions, not artillery. Pretty much all existing man portable guided anti tank weapons are better than FPVs at their job. And artillery is better than any of them at it's job. While FPVs can score kills they have minimal suppression effects, when a…

> Pretty much all existing man portable guided anti tank weapons are better than FPVs at their job. Sure, but a Javelin missile costs more than $200K. You can have 200 fpv drones for that price.

Yeah, but it takes like two guys to carry and use the javelin. 200 fpv drones need like a company to be deployed.

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#267

Post by tguvot »

esseph wrote: post #236
tguvot wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

special forces and other unspecified units: https://breakingdefense.com/2024/02/iron-sting-an-exclusive-...

Sorry I'm talking US specifically. To my knowledge there still isn't a laser guided mortar in the US inventory with dual mode laser terminal guidance. HEGM project was cancelled in 2018.

well, if usa will get a bundle of iron dome, iron fist and iron sting, it will get a cool 30% discount

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#268

Post by ponector »

Nicook wrote: post #169
aftbit wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big thing that FPV drones have going for them is that they're ludicrously cheap and easily constructed from relatively basic parts by moderately skilled people. It's literally cheaper to strap a grenade to an FPV drone and fly it into a tank hatch than it is to fire a single non-precision artillery round, let alone tens or hundreds of them. Plus, you can deploy your drones remotely from the top of a trunk deep be…

Did you not read the article? One of his major points is that a mortar is significantly cheaper and faster.

Mortar is cheaper and faster, but it is about 80mm, not a 155mm.

Good luck to hunt moving individuals with mortars, though.

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#269

Post by msgodel »

05 wrote: post #257
palata wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you add enough "if's", then surely everything is possible :-). I don't think we're anywhere near having drones that happily fly above a war zone, detect an interesting hangar, find a way to get inside and select a target inside. Currently they mostly fly FPV drones manually. The next basic step is to have "terminal engagement", where at some point they can select a target and the drone will fly autonomously to it…

Terminal guidance boards are already available on Aliexpress for $300-ish. Using YOLOv7 no less. The future is now.

Yeah I think people overestimate how big yolo models are and how much compute costs.

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#270

Post by ponector »

thisislife2 wrote: post #243
originalvichy wrote: post #77

FPV drones for combat are a hot flash in the pan. They have had a major effect for now, but naturally as these countermeasures evolve, so weakens their effect. I keep telling people that the terrain and the strategies that Russians use is the primary reason for the effectiveness. Mortars and artillery already handle the same requirements as the author says. The reason they are effective in 2024-25 is that the drip-dr…

Exactly. Many are missing the big picture - while Ukraine has managed to hurt the Russsians with drone warfare, how much has all that really helped Ukraine to drive back the Russians or re-take the territory held by the Russians? The simple answer is that it hasn't. Moreover, drones are not going to give an edge to Ukranian any more as the Russian too have mastered not just counter-drone warfare but also streamlined…

Drones really helped to slow down Russian invasion.

Now FPV drones are also used as anti-air defense. $1500 FPV drone can intercept $100k reconnaissance drone or loitering munition.

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