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I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

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Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#171

Post by sensanaty »

pjc50 wrote: post #106
aqsalose wrote: post #20

Many of the issues sound like issues coming from using improvised civilian hobbyist tech and doctrine being in its infancy. If current FPV drones are bit lackluster, it doesn't preclude 'next generation' that are purposefully developed for military use won't be useful. Also it sounds like the designation of "FPV drone" is specific to particular family of drones specific in current day and time, which may be something…

Western militaries have things like this: https://greydynamics.com/switchblade-drone-small-spring-load... More autonomy, but MUCH more expensive. Thousands or tens of thousands of dollars per use. The issue is indeed using mass-produced consumer drones. It's a bit like the widespread use of "technicals" in some conflicts: yes, a pickup truck with a .50cal in the back is inferior to tanks or armored cars, but it's als…

Slightly unrelated, but reading the "product" page is crazy to me. So much about lethal radii, kill zones and stuff like that. Wild, couldn't ever picture myself working on something like this and sleeping well at night

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#172

Post by pzo »

bluGill wrote: post #138
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fertility rate is a problem for the future, that you can also solve via better polices and incentives if you want to, meanwhile dying or being enslaved in a war is a problem for right now that you can't escape via policies. Which one you think is worse? Also, most wealthy industrialized western nations have the same fertility issues, some are only compensating by huge legal and ilegal immigration which can be causing…

Fertility rate in China has been less than one for decades. They have a lot of people, but they are heavily weighted to old.

in japan it was even for many decades and its a problem but not tragedy, japan today still doing strong. Even if population in china shrink by 50% they will still have more pole than europe or us. And lets face it shrinking 50% this will really take decades and unlikely to happen since this will correct itself eventually.

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#173

Post by varjag »

hnaccount_rng wrote: post #121
varjag wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$100 is a cost of a 60mm mortar shell. It is a hand grenade sized munition lobbed from a Pringles can sized weapon to the range of 1-2km. This is generally not the thing that comes to mind when you think of artillery strike. A 155mm (dumb, unguided) shell would set you back 5-8K USD. That's before the propellant charge, fuse and amortization of the artillery piece and its 5 man crew.

Then again the payload of an FPV is much more comparable to the mortar round than to the 155mm one

An FPV drone can take out a tank, missile erector-launcher or a dugout. Kinda hard with 60mm mortar.

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#174

Post by pzo »

msgodel wrote: post #163
palata wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you add enough "if's", then surely everything is possible :-). I don't think we're anywhere near having drones that happily fly above a war zone, detect an interesting hangar, find a way to get inside and select a target inside. Currently they mostly fly FPV drones manually. The next basic step is to have "terminal engagement", where at some point they can select a target and the drone will fly autonomously to it…

How much are the controllers they're using now? It's not like computers and cameras needed to do interesting CV are all that expensive.

some mid-range iphones or android would even do the trick. especially iphones have tone of processing power nad strong NPU/GPU and lots of cameras, lidar, depth sensor, and plenty of other sensors. second hand phone 13 mini would do the trick and you can get it for less than $500

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#175

Post by tguvot »

esseph wrote: post #161
CapricornNoble wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laser-guided artillery rounds have been around a while. The Soviets were using laser-guided 240mm heavy mortar rounds in Afghanistan. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1351804050035499... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasnopol_(weapon_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M712_Copperhead

I was one of the first non special operations troops to use a modern infantry-company sized drone (small, low cost) to guide conventional and guided artillery in 2008-9 for the US. Laser guided Excalibur rounds didn't come out until much later, same for the laser guided jdams. And the cost of those is much higher, plus logistical an deployment cost, than a FPV drone. Edit: I also don't know anybody that ever fired a…

there are now laser/gps guided mortars. probably still more expensive than drone but easier to deploy

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#176

Post by tguvot »

speeder wrote: post #125
alphabettsy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most nations don’t have flat open fields where signals can reach far away drones unimpeded by line of sight for tx/rx. Citation needed.

I saw some fascinating videos explaining that the terrain caused the war in first place. The huge border between Russia and Ukraine is completely flat grassland. This means that to Russia, Ukraine joining NATO is an unacceptable risk because that border is impossible to defend against NATO tank invasion, and the flatness go all the way to Moscow. A lot of people on internet keep poking fun at Russia inadequate tanks…

3 days after russian invasion or main russian news agency was auto-published article that was supposed to be a victory lap, and promptly removed. it was very briefly mentioned only in few western publications and not many people who speak russian know about it

it gives some insights about reasons for russian invasion. this is english translation . not sure how accurate (don't feel like checking few pages of text), but close enough

https://www.aalep.eu/advent-russia-and-new-world

origin in russian. you can right-click translate it https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20...

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#177

Post by tguvot »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #143
throwawayffffas wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hit does not equal a kill. Killing a tank or an apc, takes a lot of hits from an FPV drone due to the small payload. I have heard quoted an average of 16 hits. That's why you see videos trying to go in open hatches and the like. And that's why you are seeing cope cages. It doesnt matter how many chains or steel plates you weld on to your tank if you are hit by a TOW or a Javelin, it's still going to get you. They c…

> A Javelin is pretty much one hit one kill, and the hit rate is supposedly at about 89%. So you need like one or two to kill a tank. Take those extremely high kill rates with a massive grain of salt. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2024/11/08/re-ass... Javelin consumption rates early in the war (500/day) do not match Russian loss rates if the system was ~90% effective. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/24/p…

ukrainians were blowing up with javelins and nlaw everything that is moving and had wheels

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#178

Post by _joel »

codedokode wrote: post #168
amai wrote: post #7

A guy from Slovakia is fighting for Ukraine? Don't tell that your prime minister and supporter of Russia Robert Fico.

Almost all Europe supports Russia by buying oil and natural gas.

Through the pipeline they shut down or thorugh the shadow fleet they've sanctioned? As it stand, Europe is moving in the right direction, not quickly enough for some, but still.

Ban on new Russian gas contracts starting January 1, 2026 End of short-term contracts by June 2026 Complete phase-out by end of 2027.

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#179

Post by tguvot »

Cockbrand wrote: post #66

I guess I'm missing something, but why isn't the problem of finicky steering solved by adding auto-stabilizing software? Would that take away too much of the maneuverability?

i saw ukrainian footage of drones where they switch to/from auto hover mode

Re: I fought in Ukraine and here's why FPV drones kind of suck

#180

Post by fdye »

Interesting read. Curious how the author feels re: the attack on airbases using shipping containers/drones that was so successful?

Seems to be a unique case that worked especially well for (higher end I'm sure) FPV drones. Getting artillery in on shipping containers would have a higher likelihood of detection. Similarly, the ability to 'guide' in the drones with munitions seemed to allow for greater flexibility during the attack and its effectiveness.

I imagine eventually these cheap FPV's will be augmented with low-cost GPU's allowing for running smallish models and self-guided autonomy. This would seem the next evolution where a commander deploys them in bulk and overwhelms the enemy in a way that can't be jammed like radio-communication. Similarly, horrifying when you consider their eventual use in terrorism scenarios...

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