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The first non-opoid painkiller

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Re: The first non-opoid painkiller

#101

Post by ta20240528 »

eej71 wrote: post #62
ta20240528 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The FDA interfering with informed consent between doctor and patient isn't something I find a source of complex feelings. Thalidomide. Patients (and often doctors) really don't have the skills or information to make an informed decision. They can however have 'feelings'. This is not the same thing.

I think your argument hinges on the implied idea that whoever makes up these entities (the FDA or otherwise) are intrinsically made of finer clay that the rest of us mere mortals.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not implying anything; I'm categorically stating it: experts are better than the hoi poloi. Always.

To continue my example of thalidomide, the FDA's Dr. Frances Oldham Kelsey prevented millions of American babies from being born with devastating deformities.

At the same time millions of American mothers and their GP's were clamoring for the anti-nausea drug that the British mother's were enjoying. And they too said the FDA was getting in their way.

Experts aren't "made of finer clay" : they just know a lot more than the populace about specific topics. There are other topics where I am the finer clay. See 'specialisation'.

Re: The first non-opoid painkiller

#102

Post by hallway_monitor »

bigfudge wrote: post #100
stavros wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but paracetamol overdoses are not a fun death. Granted, you need to take a massive amount, but still.

You don't need to take that much. LD50 is surprisingly close to the normal dose, and possible to do if you don't realise that cold remedies contain it (or that aminocetophen and paracetamol are the same thing!)

I avoid it at all costs because of the possibility of liver damage. Ibuprofen seems to have the same effect without potentially serious side effects.

Re: The first non-opoid painkiller

#103

Post by OJFord »

EasyMark wrote: post #85
OJFord wrote: post #9

I think a better title here than: > The first non-opoid [sic] painkiller might be: > The first non-opioid nociceptive pain-killer Nociceptive pain being that by actual damage to tissue, as opposed to neuropathic pain like a headache or inflammation that you might take a (non-opioid!) NSAID for. https://www.iasp-pain.org/resources/terminology/

I guess that would make sense in a scientific paper or journal, but most people would have no idea what that means and just make for a confusing title that would turn people off from reading it. Almost everyone has heard of opiates in the evening news or social media.

And almost all those people have 'painkillers' such as paracetamol and ibuprofen in their cupboard, which they know not to be opiates.

The point isn't to accurately describe it as 'nociceptive' (which I've never heard of before either) and have that be understood, it's to qualify it such that it isn't confusing or sounding like an historical tale of how whatever the first NSAID/analgesic was came to be.

Re: The first non-opoid painkiller

#104

Post by Karawebnetwork »

mrweasel wrote: post #59
dakial1 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, pain exists for a reason for animals to pay attention to things that are harming the body. If you remove the flag (pain), harm will continue.

That's a very real concern. A friend of mine has a higher than normal threshold for pain and have permanent injuries as a result. Among other things has walked around on a broken foot for months and failed to register a back injury. All of this then escalated to the point where she feels the pain, but the injuries have become permanent.

I have a similar condition. For me, the issue isn't so much the sensation of the permanent injuries themselves, but rather the constant physical fatigue that comes with them. Since doctors tend to rely heavily on those 1-to-10 pain scales with the little face expressions, it's incredibly hard to be taken seriously when your symptoms don't fit neatly into that system. What's frustrating is that people who can feel the pain early on often have a chance to prevent further damage. I couldn't and doctors couldn't even help me identify that I might have health issues.

I worry a lot about aging, and I'm also afraid of things like tumors or cancers that I might not feel until it's too late. As an example, I can't feel cavities forming and I didn't even notice my wisdom teeth piercing through my gums when I was a teen.

Re: The first non-opoid painkiller

#105

Post by ValentinPearce »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #102
bigfudge wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to take that much. LD50 is surprisingly close to the normal dose, and possible to do if you don't realise that cold remedies contain it (or that aminocetophen and paracetamol are the same thing!)

I avoid it at all costs because of the possibility of liver damage. Ibuprofen seems to have the same effect without potentially serious side effects.

Ibuprofen is anti inflammatory which paracetamol isn't. IIRC this means ibuprofen can hide infections. I had a doctor friend who avoided its use as generic pain relief for that reason.

Re: The first non-opoid painkiller

#106

Post by Traubenfuchs »

ck2 wrote: post #68
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #4

Anyone better than me in pharmacology able to explain how suzetrigine compares to (high dosage?) ambroxol? They are both Nav1.8 blockers, but in Germany you can get lots of ambroxol for cheap and OTC.

Oh ambroxol is very interesting! And a cheap generic Really appreciate you mentioning it https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6494067/

Ambroxol has many interesting fringe applications.

It potentiates antibiotic effect in lung infections, including tuberculosis, treats painful hyperacusis, trigeminal neuralgia, neuropathic pain, parkinson, gaucher disease...

...and what's this? We have a surprise guest!

Ambroxol significantly reduces snoring and thus suddenly becomes a candidate for a medication half the population should take!

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/314424871_Evaluatio...

It's one of those drugs that deserves way bigger interest than it gets.

Re: The first non-opoid painkiller

#107

Post by jonhohle »

closewith wrote: post #86
billforsternz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic complaint: I am guessing an absolutely massive amount of (admittedly minor in each instance) grief has been caused by the most widely deployed simple, inexpensive, useful and familiar drug unnecessarily having two different names acetaminophen / paracetamol. Finally figured this out this year (aged 64) after previously being confused why I couldn't find any damn paracetamol in pharmacies on my occasional vi…

Paracetamol is the standard and WHO approved name used everywhere except certain parts of the US. It's ridiculous the FDA chose acetaminophen.

What parts of the US use paracetamol? I’ve lived on both coasts and the Midwest and haven’t ever seen anything but acetaminophen.

Re: The first non-opoid painkiller

#108

Post by dspillett »

theoreticalmal wrote: post #82
billforsternz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic complaint: I am guessing an absolutely massive amount of (admittedly minor in each instance) grief has been caused by the most widely deployed simple, inexpensive, useful and familiar drug unnecessarily having two different names acetaminophen / paracetamol. Finally figured this out this year (aged 64) after previously being confused why I couldn't find any damn paracetamol in pharmacies on my occasional vi…

My wife and I got colds while vacationing in Edinburgh and had a heck of a time before realizing to ask for paracetamol rather than acetaminophen. Also, the rules the UK has for limiting paracetamol purchases to small amount per day are so fantastically stupid.

> the rules the UK has for limiting paracetamol purchases to small amount per day are so fantastically stupid

Worse than that: it is effectively per day per shop. In a very short space of time I can buy two packs in Boots, two in Tesco, two in Sainsbury, ooh look another small Tesco I'll get two there as well, two from Savers, two from SuperDrug, …

Re: The first non-opoid painkiller

#109

Post by tim333 »

billforsternz wrote: post #40
ggm wrote: post #2

Colloquially acetaminophen/paracetamol and ibuprofen are "painkillers" but this is in a different class, it's amazing to have something which performs like the opioid pain relief but without at least some of the side effects. It's the first non opioid painkiller applicable for situations like post operative use. I'd have loved this after my hernia op, the last thing you need with that is opioid induced constipation.

Off topic complaint: I am guessing an absolutely massive amount of (admittedly minor in each instance) grief has been caused by the most widely deployed simple, inexpensive, useful and familiar drug unnecessarily having two different names acetaminophen / paracetamol. Finally figured this out this year (aged 64) after previously being confused why I couldn't find any damn paracetamol in pharmacies on my occasional vi…

Tylenol also. Virtually all drugs and chemical products go under a bunch of somewhat confusing names. I guess for marketing?

Re: The first non-opoid painkiller

#110

Post by tim333 »

drewg123 wrote: post #99
closewith wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, the rules the UK has for limiting paracetamol purchases to small amount per day are so fantastically stupid. Yes, but: > Responsible for 56,000 emergency department visits and 2600 hospitalizations, acetaminophen poisoning causes 500 deaths annually in the United States. Notably, around 50% of these poisonings are unintentional, often resulting from patients misinterpreting dosing instructions or unknowingly…

I was under the impression that a lot of overdoses of acetaminophen are due to it being included in many different multiple-medicine cold/flu remidies, like cough syrup, NyQuil, decongestants, etc. So people end up exceeding the max dose accidentally when they take acetaminophen along with some of those other things. Does the UK have rules that prevent mixing acetaminophen with other drugs? Its getting so its sometim…

I think it's less mixed in with other products than in the US (?)
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