Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft Edit

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 337 posts

Re: Microsoft Edit

#291

Post by seabrookmx »

JdeBP wrote: post #281
seabrookmx wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the question I was answering in my comment.

There's an underlying assumption about "target audience for this editor" that you both share, that others, I suspect quite a few others, do not. For starters, there's your assumption that there is "syntax" to be highlighted. Not every text file is something written in a computer programming language.

You're right, I do assume most (90+%? of) people that are looking for a terminal editor are likely developers.

In fact I'd put money on it, but sadly do not have any evidence to back it up.

If you have evidence to the contrary I'd be intrigued!

Re: Microsoft Edit

#292

Post by ethbr1 »

srvmshr wrote: post #107
san1927 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lmao is any body still using turbo cpp?

You'll be surprised if I tell you several universities in India have not updated their curriculum in a very long time & Turbo C++ (& its non-standard C++ flavor) is the weapon of choice. The school board in the '00s, which preferred to teach a programming language for CS, used to have it curriculum around this C++ dialect. I have passed my high-school board examinations with this language (It was known to be already…

> You'll be surprised if I tell you several universities in India have not updated their curriculum in a very long time

I once asked an Indian colleague why Indians use US/UK-nonstandard English like "kindly", "do the needful", and "revert".

He thought about it a minute, then said "Oh, the texts everyone uses to learn English say that proper letters must always begin with 'Kindly,'".

Sokath, his eyes uncovered.

Re: Microsoft Edit

#293

Post by LionEgo »

masfoobar wrote: post #198
LionEgo wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why WSL is a thing is because developers in corps needed a way to run Linux. IT support and techs doesn't know anything about Linux typically and don't want to deal with supporting it. WSL fixes this problem. Most developers don't want to use Linux at all. Many developers don't even really know how to user a terminal and rely on GUI tools.

> Most developers don't want to use Linux at all. Many developers don't even really know how to user a terminal and rely on GUI tools. First of all, I disagree with this comment. However, lets assume you are right.. that the average "Windows Developer" has little to zero skills in GNU/Linux. If that is the case, it proves my point EVEN MORE that Micrsofot missed out creating a Microsoft Linux Distro... designed to ha…

> First of all, I disagree with this comment.

You can disagree all you want. It is simply the truth. I've contracted in the UK and Europe. Most devs don't even know you can tab complete most commands in modern shells (IIRC cmd.exe supports this). This is both Microsoft Shops and shops that use opensource stacks e.g. LAMP and similar.

I was in a large company in the NW and I knew two developers in a team of 30 that knew basic bash and vim.

There is a reason why "how I exit from vim" is a meme. Most people have no idea how to do it.

> If that is the case, it proves my point EVEN MORE that Micrsofot missed out creating a Microsoft Linux Distro... designed to have Powershell, Visual Studio Code, Edit, and potentially Edge, SQL Server, etc.

Respectfully you seem to have never worked with the people I describe. You listed PowerShell as if they would use it. A former colleague of mine was quizzed why he would use PowerShell to write a script that would run on a Windows Server. They had expected him to write a C# program.

Re: Microsoft Edit

#294

Post by LionEgo »

trelane wrote: post #205
LionEgo wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why WSL is a thing is because developers in corps needed a way to run Linux. IT support and techs doesn't know anything about Linux typically and don't want to deal with supporting it. WSL fixes this problem. Most developers don't want to use Linux at all. Many developers don't even really know how to user a terminal and rely on GUI tools.

> Many developers don't even really know how to user a terminal and rely on GUI tools. Fortunately, Linux users can also avail themselves of a graphical interface as well.

Your snark at my comments is completely unwarranted.

I really shouldn't have to explain what follows. But I will.

Installing any dev tooling that is third party is done on the command line. Look up the instructions for installing Node LTS on Debian, or .NET, or Golang. You need to use the command line. Even on easier to use Distros they have the same procedure. Depending on the tooling you may need to set additional environment variables which are normally done in your .bashrc or similar.

What normally happens is people blindly copy and paste things into the terminal and don't read the documentation. This has been a problem on Linux since before Ubuntu was released. This isn't just limited to newbies either.

The state of GUIs BTW isn't great. Many of them look nice, and work reasonably well most of the time, *until they don't* e.g. If I double click a deb to install it, sometimes it will install. Other times it won't. So I don't even bother anymore and just use dpkg/apt. BTW it isn't any better with other distros. So I have to drop to the command line to fix the issue anyway.

So at some point you will need to learn bash, learn to read the man pages, and manually edit configuration file. It is unavoidable on Linux.

Re: Microsoft Edit

#296

Post by LionEgo »

8-prime wrote: post #183
LionEgo wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why WSL is a thing is because developers in corps needed a way to run Linux. IT support and techs doesn't know anything about Linux typically and don't want to deal with supporting it. WSL fixes this problem. Most developers don't want to use Linux at all. Many developers don't even really know how to user a terminal and rely on GUI tools.

> Most developers don't want to use Linux at all. I don't know if this is necessarily true. Many of the develops I know prefer GUI applications to cli tooling, which I can get behind. That has nothing to do with Linux vs Windows though. But my struggles with Windows are plentiful and the same goes for all my colleagues. I have a hard time believing that we are the outliers and not the rule.

We are the outliers. My co-workers hasn't even removed the awful Windows weather app and search bar from the taskbar.

Re: Microsoft Edit

#297

Post by LionEgo »

lpcvoid wrote: post #193
LionEgo wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why WSL is a thing is because developers in corps needed a way to run Linux. IT support and techs doesn't know anything about Linux typically and don't want to deal with supporting it. WSL fixes this problem. Most developers don't want to use Linux at all. Many developers don't even really know how to user a terminal and rely on GUI tools.

Sorry for the snarky comment, but then those devs are simply bad. Windows is legacy, the future is in open source.

> Sorry for the snarky comment, but then those devs are simply bad

Yes. That is the majority of developers. I had to explain to a dev today (nice enough guy) that he has to actually run the tests.

> Windows is legacy, the future is in open source.

You can claim the future is opensource but the industry has moved towards SAAS, PAAS, IAAS which is even more lock in than using a proprietary OS such as Windows.

So while you might have an opensource OS, many of the programs you use will be proprietary in the worst way possible.

Re: Microsoft Edit

#298

Post by ethbr1 »

cwyers wrote: post #245
conductr wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a heavy tax to protect the ignorant. I hear things like this and think how I've been using a computer for nearly 4 decades and it's never once happened to me. Maybe those types of people need to re-evaluate their technology choices (maybe iPad is more appropriate) instead of taxing the entire ecosystem to protect them from themselves.

If you count the number of ignorant people who use Windows versus the people like you, you'll quickly realize the tax is very cheap for the level of protection it offers to the number of people it offers it to.

The correct answer should be a legally-mandated one-time escape hatch.

Bury it as deep as Microsoft wants, but...

  1) Everyone can use it
  2) It turns off all nanny-checks
  3) It makes future checks opt-in instead of opt-out

Re: Microsoft Edit

#299

Post by ethbr1 »

trinix912 wrote: post #270
pjmlp wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately that is something Microsoft seems incapable of. MFC was already relatively bad versus OWL. Borland[0] kept improving it with VCL and nowadays FireMonkey. There there is Qt as well. Microsoft instead came up with ATL, and when they finally had something that could rival C++ Builder, with C++/CX, a small group managed to replace it with C++/WinRT because they didn't like extensions, the irony. With comple…

Borland was pretty good on the GUI front, I think we're forgetting how easy it was to get something rolling in Delphi. It's baffling Microsoft still hasn't gotten their stuff together on this. They've been just releasing new frameworks since the WinRT era and hoping something sticks.

Microsoft's GUI problem is two-fold.

Firstly, that nobody believes them when they swear that {new GUI framework} will be the future and used for everything. Really. Because this time is not like those other times.

Secondly, pre-release user feedback. Ironic, given other parts of Microsoft do feedback well.

Imho, the only way MS is going to truly displace WinForms at this point is to launch a 5-year project, developed in the open, and guided in part by their community instead of internally.

And toss a sweetener in, like free app signing or something.

Re: Microsoft Edit

#300

Post by ethbr1 »

samiv wrote: post #241
bgro wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every product has bizarre bloat. I understand things might get heavier over time with new features, but Office from like 20 years ago still works pretty great. In fact, I don’t even really see any new features that are missing in my normal use case. Actually, anything that DOES exist in a newer version is something I actively DO NOT want. For example, monthly/yearly subscriptions, popups that interrupt typing to adve…

Since you mentioned Outlook.. at work we use Outlook 2019 and its exactly like you mention. The user interface is littered with useless crap, the File menu goes back to this weird completely new different UI layout etc etc. And the best part is that if the VPN goes temporarily down it fails to send/receive new emails until it has been restarted. Let me say that again. It fails at its core functionality if there's a g…

Apparently you weren't there when Lync^H^H^H^HSkype for Business would retry an incorrect password infinitely, until it locked a user account.

Yes, even when running on an unconnected session on a Windows server/VDI somewhere.

Post reply on HN