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Framework Laptop 12 review

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#131

Post by theodric »

masklinn wrote: post #76
theodric wrote: post #52

> "A sturdy, thoughtful, cute design that just can't compete in its price range." People will pay untold thousands for a Mac, but God forbid when a PC manufacturer charges more than $599 for a laptop. If you're whining about the price, Framework isn't made for you. Go buy that Acer that you really want. The Framework is Sam Vimes' expensive boots that are made to last[1], and I've happily paid in full to get a pair.…

> People will pay untold thousands for a Mac, but God forbid when a PC manufacturer charges more than $599 for a laptop. The article compares the FL12 to laptops of the same price range, including other framework laptops to note that it falls short. The FL12 has worse performances and battery life than an M1 Air, for more than an M4. The point of the article is that the 12 should either be a lot less expensive or it…

You can repair a Mac by handing it (and possibly your wallet) to Apple and letting them replace entire large subsystems to remedy the issue and pair the new parts. A few years back (pre-Apple Silicon) I got a new top case, keyboard, battery, and trackpad because the button in the trackpad had failed. Pretty good deal on a laptop that was nearly 3 years old, in fairness.

To repair (or upgrade) a Framework, you buy the part and install it. That's worth something to me!

Incidentally, I also have a last-gen ThinkPad P14s Gen 5 AMD and it's a flimsy POS. Already needed a new motherboard and battery and spent three weeks sitting at the service center while they rounded up the parts. Wish I'd bought another Framework 13.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#132

Post by eloisant »

criddell wrote: post #62
mhitza wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it unreasonable to think Framework should be able to make a laptop competitive with the 5 years old MacBook Air M1? Kind of unreasonable. I mean which Intel or AMD cpu can be run fanless and perform well? On the topic of displays, my understanding is that they "kind of use what they can get". That's how there can be a 13 display with rounded corners in a straight edge case. What you're asking are the things I'm…

> I mean which Intel or AMD cpu can be run fanless and perform well? I don't follow CPU news and have no idea what lake they're at now, but I'd be surprised if Intel and AMD didn't have a chip competitive with an M1 by now. When I google "fanless amd intel laptop cpu" I find this old thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31142209 which does suggest some fanless machines exist. That's from 3 years ago so surely…

To put it simply, I don't think we'll get anything closer to the M1 on the x86 architecture.

You'll have to wait for Framework to offer a Snapdragon instead of Intel/AMD but they haven't announced anything yet.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#133

Post by f1shy »

criddell wrote: post #14

Is it unreasonable to think Framework should be able to make a laptop competitive with the 5 years old MacBook Air M1? I get that Framework focuses on making repairable machines, but does that prevent them from making a fanless, hi dpi, good performing, long battery life machine? I wouldn’t expect parity with an M4 machine, but it doesn’t seem unreasonable to think they should be competitive with the much older M1. I…

Exactly that is what I think, and I do think it is just not possible.

I’m searching for a new laptop, I want unix, so either linux or macos. I was looking at framework, system76, tuxedo and slimbooks, and mac air. I want an ANSI keyboard, which seems an oddity in Europe (there is English iso, which viscerally hate)

If you want thunderbolt ports, and some good specs, mac air is cheaper. And I’ve heard with arm processors you can tun linux at almost native speeds… I’m almost decided for Mac Air…

If somebody wants to add something to make me change my mind, you are more than welcome.

BTW I’m replacing a 2016 Macbook pro, which was buggy as hell, and I learned to really hate it. Also I’m not a fan of MacOs… but !4$ I cannot beat it.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#134

Post by eloisant »

dale_huevo wrote: post #111
stavros wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm far more likely to buy a RAM stick off the shelf and install it in a Framework than I am to desolder the RAM from a Macbook. Similarly, if I spill orange juice on a Framework, I can just buy a new keyboard and install it in a minute. If it were a Macbook, I'd probably throw away the whole thing, since I'd have to disassemble all of it to get to the keyboard, and it would take me hours, if I even managed to not br…

But are you really going to repair it? Or, upon spilling the juice, realize you can get a Surface Go on sale at Walmart (which this seems to be a clone of) for a bit more than a replacement keyboard and your time (which is way more than a minute) and toss it in the trash anyway.

The kind of people who buy Framework laptops would repair them, yes.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#135

Post by perching_aix »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #93
perching_aix wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Asking for a laptop with 100PPD doesn't even make sense. Won't deny, since again, PPD depends on your field of view. Yes, if you shop for "resolution and diagonal size", you may as well shop for PPI directly. This just doesn't generalize to displays overall (see my other comment with a TV example), as it's not actually the right variable. Wrong method, "right" result. > The threshold for sharp edges is much finer,…

PPI doesn't generalize across different types of display but it works pretty well within a category of monitor, laptop, tablet, phone. For TV you probably just assume it's 4K and figure out the size you like. It's wrong but it's wrong in a way that causes minimal trouble and there's no better option. And if you add viewing distance explicitly, PPI+distance isn't meaningfully worse than PPD+distance, and people will u…

Eh, I suppose. Just the criteria of "is it hidpi? yes/no" readily mislead GP for example (i.e. it definitely is, just still "not hidpi enough"), so I felt it would be helpful if the mechanism at play was clarified. Maybe I came off too strong though. Felt it would be clearer to use the correct variable at least, than to try and relativize PPI.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#136

Post by kej »

soco wrote: post #15
gonzalohm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Most laptops have Ctrl | Fn | windows | alt Which matches what one should expect from a desktop keyboard (Ctrl is the left-most key)

If most laptops = HP then yes. However my Lenovo has Fn | Ctrl...

Lenovo seems to be joining the rest of the world with Ctrl | Fn, based on the new ThinkPad I was issued at work a few weeks ago. I know the older Fn | Ctrl systems had a BIOS option to swap them, but I'm not sure if the new ones still have that.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#137

Post by ItCouldBeWorse »

> A good laptop, but not a good value

One of my mentors had the great sentence: "I dont buy laptops- they suck, because they are tailored to transport. I buy desktops- and connect them via internet to flat transportable terminals. And desktops can be upgraded, merged, reused and send to the closet as server at the EOL-"

And he was kind of right. For almost all purposes, even for gaming in a way- a remote desktop is kind of superior. Yes, stadia is dead- but for everything else- this shall do.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#138

Post by stavros »

eloisant wrote: post #134
dale_huevo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are you really going to repair it? Or, upon spilling the juice, realize you can get a Surface Go on sale at Walmart (which this seems to be a clone of) for a bit more than a replacement keyboard and your time (which is way more than a minute) and toss it in the trash anyway.

The kind of people who buy Framework laptops would repair them, yes.

Yep, I definitely 100% would, immediately.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#140

Post by benoau »

j_w wrote: post #125
benoau wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't make the CPU or the hardware. And M1 laptops are what about three years from the vintage list? They'll be e-waste at the end of this decade even while other laptops fail to match it.

How is a device that is still functional e-waste? I have an M1 which I got near launch and don't see myself throwing it out by the end of the decade.

It's lifespan is practically defined by how long it gets security updates after Apple obsoletes it, and your ability to install other operating systems when that ends - there is only Asahi Linux, and Asahi is still figuring out M1 support.
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