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Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

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Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#191

Post by shinratdr »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #174
shinratdr wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not the phones or OS that makes IOS outsell the other companies mentioned - It is the apps and the marketing. So nobody buys an iPhone because of how responsive iOS is or how well the iPhone is designed? Give me a break. Also, it's "iOS". IOS is the Cisco router OS.

By that metric, OS X and Linux are bad operating systems because they don't sell/run anywhere as much as Windows does. Windows must be superior in every way because it sells more, the other OSes are just bad?

> By that metric, OS X and Linux are bad operating systems because they don't sell/run anywhere as much as Windows does.

How is that my metric? I said it's ludicrous to assume nobody buys an iPhone because of the design or the OS, it's always because of the apps.

I never said word one about number of units sold, I have no idea what you're talking about right now.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#192

Post by cageface »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #122
mladenkovacevic wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big loser here though might be America. Mobile hardware companies like ZTE or Huawei who are probably growing at the fastest pace right now are just going to deem the American market too risky to be made a priority and focus on Asian & European markets.

Apple will have no problem following them into European courts. I'm sure Asia is the same, assuming they feel they can get a fair shake there. Many of the types of patents they are suing for are international in nature.

Good luck getting this kind of ruling anywhere in Asia except perhaps Japan. Most Asians are going to be baffled by this, if they don't see it as an attack on a successful Asian business by an American bully.

Apple is going to regret this in the long run, I suspect. They should have spent their energy going after the Chinese iPhone cloners that put junk hardware in an actual iPhone case instead.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#193

Post by saurik »

nitrogen wrote: post #141
saurik wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebOS had many of the same UI elements; they actually copied the tactile feel quite closely. At the time of the Pre launch, the speculation was that Palm could afford to piss off Apple as their patent chest included some real gems from their work on the Palm Pilot and on Treo smartphones; I have a vague recollection that they had some key patents required to build a smartphone address book that Apple was already like…

Doesn't the phrase "patents required to build a smartphone address book" alone make you think that the patent system is broken?

On a similar note, I find the idea that future non-Apple devices might have been required to be triangular absolutely hilarious.

> The only patent the jury found that Samsung didn't infringe relates to the design of a tablet as having a rectangular shape and rounded corners. Throughout the trial, Samsung's lawyers frequently remarked that Apple shouldn't be given a monopoly on a rectangle with rounded corners.

-- online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444358404577609810658082898.html

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#194

Post by CamperBob2 »

magicalist wrote: post #161
magicalist wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know why Jeff Han's work was not emphasized more as prior art? (there was also more at the time, but I can't recall specifics now). > If we had patents on desktop GUI user input standards like right click, ctrl key modifiers like ctrl-scroll to zoom, etc. then using computers would be a much bigger PITA. This is the key right here. I don't think everyone fully understands what is happening around these UI…

This is independent claim 8 from 7844915, which (IANAL and everything we have so far is based on breathless reporting) was found infringing: A machine readable storage medium storing executable program instructions which when executed cause a data processing system to perform a method comprising: - receiving a user input, the user input is one or more input points applied to a touch-sensitive display that is integrat…

Exactly. One way to explain the lunacy of claim 8 to a layperson would be by example: imagine if Edison's patent for the light bulb had covered any possible means of turning electricity into light, rather than a specific method involving a conductive filament in an evacuated bulb.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#195

Post by CamperBob2 »

azakai wrote: post #91
sriramk wrote: post #74

The big winner, apart from Apple, is Microsoft. If you're a hardware manufacturer, your choices are 1. You go with Android and have both Apple and Microsoft come after you. 2. You go with Windows Phone. I suspect the Windows Phone team is breaking open some champagne now.

No, you can also make an Android phone. You just need to avoid infringing these specific patents either by removing functionality or implementing it in another way. This lawsuit did not find that "Android" helplessly infringes Apple patents in all cases. Just that the combination of Android, Samsung's software modifications to Android, and Samsung hardware, together infringed several very specific Apple patents.

No, you can also make an Android phone. You just need to avoid infringing these specific patents either by removing functionality or implementing it in another way.

As magicalist points out elsewhere in the thread, it is utterly impossible for anyone to build anything resembling a modern smartphone without infringing claim 8 of Apple's '915 patent. You can build a phone or a tablet, but whatever you build will not be capable of competing with an iPhone or an iPad.

Regardless of what you think about Apple, the iPhone, or patents in general, it is not OK for a judge or jury to hand an entire market over to a single player for 20 years. Claim 8, by itself, is enough to do that. By granting it, the USPTO walled off all possible competitive approaches.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#196

Post by taligent »

vesky wrote: post #175
siglesias wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing this audience, I'll probably get downvoted, but I'll say it anyway. That's rather cynical. This is precisely the kind of trial that doesn't require expert thinking because most of what is up for debate is whether Samsung willfully attempted to fool customers into thinking that their products were just like an iPhone by copying the trade dress. And determining such a thing is a matter of common sense. This rem…

Reports already show that the jurors had not idea what they were doing. Many of the claims they made had no actual basis of infringement. This reeks heavily of people that had little idea about how the system actually works and gave verdicts that were more speculative rather than grounded and based on hard acts of actual infringement. http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/24/hang-on-a-minute-jurors-awa...

Sorry buy you're definitely wrong there.

It is not "many of the claims" it is one claim for one phone out of what 15+ that were covered in the case. It is quite understandable that there would be at least one mistake out of the all patent/phone combinations.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#197

Post by ShirtlessRod »

enraged_camel wrote: post #54
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally, but not for Samsung. That's almost 10% of their net profit last year. This is going to scare the shit out of every Android handset maker out there.

Which in my opinion is a good thing. Everyone should think twice before blatantly imitating the result of other people's investments and hard work. Edit: the downvotes do not surprise me. HN has a very anti-Apple slant.

"HN has a very anti-Apple slant."

How so?

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#198

Post by vesky »

mbreese wrote: post #180
vesky wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reports already show that the jurors had not idea what they were doing. Many of the claims they made had no actual basis of infringement. This reeks heavily of people that had little idea about how the system actually works and gave verdicts that were more speculative rather than grounded and based on hard acts of actual infringement. http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/24/hang-on-a-minute-jurors-awa...

Honest question: Would you have the same opinion if the jury decided the other way?

Honest answer: I would.

Even more honest answer: I'd probably let the Apple fanboys share the injustice to the world.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#199

Post by sseveran »

lazyoaf wrote: post #38
taligent wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's shocking is your complete ignorance of how the legal system works.

I'm aware of how it works, i just don't think there should be a legal dispute for many of the 'patents' here is all.

Well thats not how the law works today,

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#200

Post by sseveran »

Karunamon wrote: post #67
gridspy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Patents prevent fair competition? Isn't that the point of patents?

>Are you saying that Patents prevent fair competition? Absolutely and unquestionably. I've seem them more used recently to bully and to harass by companies who'd rather litigate than innovate.

Well the point of the patent is that you can sue people who infringe on it. Why can't someone do both? Apple clearly has done both here.
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