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Miscalculation by Spanish power grid operator REE contributed to blackout

reuters.com

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Re: Miscalculation by Spanish power grid operator REE contributed to blackout

#21

Post by closewith »

mschuster91 wrote: post #17
riedel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting read. I reminded me of some stories a German guy who used to work for a Spanish utility told me (the guy lost his job at one of the first closed German nuclear facilities and now worked at the museum of a pumped storage power plant): he told us that the Spanish utility he worked for waited far too long to kick in gas power plants waiting for prices to rise further making tons of money by risking stability…

> I also learned from him that a lot German nuclear facilities are still running there generators only as weight to stabilize the network. We aren't. Pretty much the first things that get dismantled is the turbines and machinery that has no radiation exposure because you need space to maneuver, buffer, dismantle and decontaminate everything else that's coming out of the innards of the plant and actually is contaminat…

Biblis A is used for syn-con, which I presume is what the person the GP spoke to was talking about.

Re: Miscalculation by Spanish power grid operator REE contributed to blackout

#23

Post by b3orn »

riedel wrote: post #9
tux3 wrote: post #2

They've now presented the report, but the report itself hasn't yet been made public. The press release is here: https://www.miteco.gob.es/es/prensa/ultimas-noticias/2025/ju...

Interesting read. I reminded me of some stories a German guy who used to work for a Spanish utility told me (the guy lost his job at one of the first closed German nuclear facilities and now worked at the museum of a pumped storage power plant): he told us that the Spanish utility he worked for waited far too long to kick in gas power plants waiting for prices to rise further making tons of money by risking stability…

> I also learned from him that a lot German nuclear facilities are still running there generators only as weight to stabilize the network

The term for this is synchronous condenser. According to the system stability report 2023 [0] there were three of these in Germany in 2023 (source is in german, the term you're looking for is rotierender Phasenschieber). It is not clear if these are converted generators, most likely they are not former nuclear power plants, but likely located at the sites of former coal power plants because of the existing grid nodes. For the future this is a concept that is investigated to provide reactive power, in that case from former coal power plants.

[0]: https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Fachthemen/Elektrizitaet...

Re: Miscalculation by Spanish power grid operator REE contributed to blackout

#25

Post by AshamedCaptain »

narag wrote: post #3

Disclaimer: I can't really vouch for any of this, but let me tell you what's being discussed in the press over here. This is Government's version and it shows. REE boss was put there by the ruling party. Still they try to paint REE as a private operator now. It's not. Like many other orgs, it's a mix of private and public capital, ultimately controled by the government. It's suspected that the blackout was caused bec…

> Private companies are requesting the records of CECOEL conversation to be published, some have leaked their logs. In one of those, REE technicians readily admit that oscilations are caused by not enough nuclear in the mix.

And where are those leaks, if one may ask?

French-side the only generation station that actually was ejected from the network that day was, precisely, a nuclear power plant. [1] A non-specific "moar nuclear!" cry seems therefore a bit hard to believe.

[1] https://www.edf.fr/la-centrale-nucleaire-de-golfech/les-actu...

Re: Miscalculation by Spanish power grid operator REE contributed to blackout

#26

Post by Etheryte »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #25
narag wrote: post #3

Disclaimer: I can't really vouch for any of this, but let me tell you what's being discussed in the press over here. This is Government's version and it shows. REE boss was put there by the ruling party. Still they try to paint REE as a private operator now. It's not. Like many other orgs, it's a mix of private and public capital, ultimately controled by the government. It's suspected that the blackout was caused bec…

> Private companies are requesting the records of CECOEL conversation to be published, some have leaked their logs. In one of those, REE technicians readily admit that oscilations are caused by not enough nuclear in the mix. And where are those leaks, if one may ask? French-side the only generation station that actually was ejected from the network that day was, precisely, a nuclear power plant. [1] A non-specific "m…

This doesn't make the point you think it makes. Nuclear power plants are supposed to go offline in unstable grid conditions. This ensures they don't overheat, equipment isn't damaged, and that they can be taken offline in a safe, rather than unsafe manner.

Re: Miscalculation by Spanish power grid operator REE contributed to blackout

#28

Post by AshamedCaptain »

Etheryte wrote: post #26
AshamedCaptain wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Private companies are requesting the records of CECOEL conversation to be published, some have leaked their logs. In one of those, REE technicians readily admit that oscilations are caused by not enough nuclear in the mix. And where are those leaks, if one may ask? French-side the only generation station that actually was ejected from the network that day was, precisely, a nuclear power plant. [1] A non-specific "m…

This doesn't make the point you think it makes. Nuclear power plants are supposed to go offline in unstable grid conditions. This ensures they don't overheat, equipment isn't damaged, and that they can be taken offline in a safe, rather than unsafe manner.

Your point is not really a point either: every power plant can be ejected from the network in such cases, and not just nuclear ones. The remark here is that it precisely happened to a nuclear first.

Re: Miscalculation by Spanish power grid operator REE contributed to blackout

#30

Post by cryptonector »

narag wrote: post #3

Disclaimer: I can't really vouch for any of this, but let me tell you what's being discussed in the press over here. This is Government's version and it shows. REE boss was put there by the ruling party. Still they try to paint REE as a private operator now. It's not. Like many other orgs, it's a mix of private and public capital, ultimately controled by the government. It's suspected that the blackout was caused bec…

Yeah, this is a miscalculation, a miscalculation of the -you know- _political_ sort. It's not some junior employee's math error. It was _policy_. It blew up in the policy maker's face.
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