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Threat in Your Medicine Cabinet: The FDA's Gamble on America's Drugs

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Re: Threat in Your Medicine Cabinet: The FDA's Gamble on America's Drugs

#61

Post by eightys3v3n »

timr wrote: post #10
soangry wrote: post #2

I'm so angry right now. I did a deep dive into this at one point after being prescribed some generic Vyvanse through Sun via Dillons/Kroger. The pills smell like fish and seem like they didn't work at all. I checked some records from the FDA and Sun wasn't listed. I brought it up to my doctor and they just brushed it off. I really hope another class action lawsuit is brought against Sun.

The "fishy odor" is a classic hallmark of amine-containing compounds [1], of which Vyvanse has three [2], including a terminal amine, which is so infamous (at least in the di-amine form) for being smelly that they have delightful names like "Cadaverine" [3]. I don't know if the completely purified drug officially has an odor, but usually you get some free amines that come along for the ride. More likely, some got out…

I pursonally took Vyvance brand name for over 1.5 years by opening the capsule and mixing it in a bottle of water. Never did it have a smell or taste. Even if Vyvance is manufactured with compounds that often have a smell or taste associated with them, the fact that this generic smelled almost certainly speaks to lower quality controls than the brand name based on my experience. At the very least it would speak to them choosing a component that smells over one that does not.

Re: Threat in Your Medicine Cabinet: The FDA's Gamble on America's Drugs

#62

Post by [deleted] »

ls612 wrote: post #43
idopmstuff wrote: post #27

For more on this, I highly recommend Bottle of Lies by Katherine Eban. Fantastically written book that goes deep on this topic and will absolutely horrify you about everything related to the manufacture of generic drugs.

My mom was a hospital pharmacist when she was still working and was beating the drum on this all my life as far as I can remember. All it accomplished was getting her called racist and xenophobic and losing friends :(

[deleted]

Re: Threat in Your Medicine Cabinet: The FDA's Gamble on America's Drugs

#63

Post by quickthrowman »

barbazoo wrote: post #47
kgujdtjof wrote: post #16

Manufacturing drugs in India is like manufacturing them in Haiti. Why would anyone think that would be a good idea?

Care to explain?

150 million people still shit in the open in India. Is that a sufficient explanation?

It’s substantially better than it used to be. FWIW I believe the people of India deserve to have proper sanitation.

Re: Threat in Your Medicine Cabinet: The FDA's Gamble on America's Drugs

#64

Post by barbazoo »

quickthrowman wrote: post #63
barbazoo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain?

150 million people still shit in the open in India. Is that a sufficient explanation? It’s substantially better than it used to be. FWIW I believe the people of India deserve to have proper sanitation.

> 150 million people still shit in the open in India.

Yet they landed on the moon [1], how about that. I assume they're theoretically capable of producing medicine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrayaan-3

Re: Threat in Your Medicine Cabinet: The FDA's Gamble on America's Drugs

#65

Post by timr »

eightys3v3n wrote: post #61
timr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "fishy odor" is a classic hallmark of amine-containing compounds [1], of which Vyvanse has three [2], including a terminal amine, which is so infamous (at least in the di-amine form) for being smelly that they have delightful names like "Cadaverine" [3]. I don't know if the completely purified drug officially has an odor, but usually you get some free amines that come along for the ride. More likely, some got out…

I pursonally took Vyvance brand name for over 1.5 years by opening the capsule and mixing it in a bottle of water. Never did it have a smell or taste. Even if Vyvance is manufactured with compounds that often have a smell or taste associated with them, the fact that this generic smelled almost certainly speaks to lower quality controls than the brand name based on my experience. At the very least it would speak to th…

> Even if Vyvance is manufactured with compounds that often have a smell or taste associated with them

Just to be clear: it's not "associated" -- the drug itself probably smells, and you just didn't notice it. It's very, very common with drugs containing amines.

Metformin, for instance, has a distinctly fishy odor (but it also has a couple more amines):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metformin#/media/File:Metformi...

Re: Threat in Your Medicine Cabinet: The FDA's Gamble on America's Drugs

#66

Post by kjkjadksj »

thfuran wrote: post #14
xpe wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect doctors (and people in general), but I don’t give the medical profession a passing grade. To speak in generalities (there are exceptions), their training is somewhat insane: long hours, sleep deprivation, knowledge cramming, and more. Their daily practice leaves little time or incentive for keeping up with studies. Most were not adequately taught statistics in the first place. To vent a bit more, I don’t th…

>Their daily practice leaves little time or incentive for keeping up with studies. Their certification requires it, at least to some extent.

It is a rubber stamp cert. I’ve been to a continuing medical education talk. It is your bog standard visiting scholar giving a 45 min talk of their research. Lecture hall is sleepy aside from the usual suspects. Sheet pizza from the cheapest place in town is being served. People are nodding off in the back. About the only way you can tell this is a continuing medical education event is the clipboard and pen being passed around for MDs to sign their name along with a signature.

It is a far cry from actual class. Learning isn’t required only saying you were there.

Re: Threat in Your Medicine Cabinet: The FDA's Gamble on America's Drugs

#67

Post by mrguyorama »

vanillax wrote: post #45
jmyeet wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism cannot exist without regulation. There is no such thing as a "free market". Capitalism relies upon regulation to enforce the enclosures it builds. Regulations are a direct product to protect profits. For example, Medicare is prohibited from negotiating prices with drug companies for most medications. A few exceptions were carved out with the IRA passed under Biden. The VA can it pays a lot less. Why is Med…

"Capitalism cannot exist without regulation. There is no such thing as a "free market". Capitalism relies upon regulation to enforce the enclosures it builds. Regulations are a direct product to protect profits." - Source?

For one, capitalism requires some system of property rights, which only exist due to regulation.

Re: Threat in Your Medicine Cabinet: The FDA's Gamble on America's Drugs

#68

Post by yababa_y »

timr wrote: post #65
eightys3v3n wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pursonally took Vyvance brand name for over 1.5 years by opening the capsule and mixing it in a bottle of water. Never did it have a smell or taste. Even if Vyvance is manufactured with compounds that often have a smell or taste associated with them, the fact that this generic smelled almost certainly speaks to lower quality controls than the brand name based on my experience. At the very least it would speak to th…

> Even if Vyvance is manufactured with compounds that often have a smell or taste associated with them Just to be clear: it's not "associated" -- the drug itself probably smells, and you just didn't notice it. It's very, very common with drugs containing amines. Metformin, for instance, has a distinctly fishy odor (but it also has a couple more amines): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metformin#/media/File:Metformi...

from my experience washing some mediocre amphetamine cooks,

the fishy smell is not characteristic of pure amphetamine, but leftover methylamines from synthesis.

vyvanse adds a lysine but none of these amines are free. it’s odorless as well, but any lysine esthers leftover will stank.

it was shit product

Re: Threat in Your Medicine Cabinet: The FDA's Gamble on America's Drugs

#69

Post by quickthrowman »

barbazoo wrote: post #64
quickthrowman wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

150 million people still shit in the open in India. Is that a sufficient explanation? It’s substantially better than it used to be. FWIW I believe the people of India deserve to have proper sanitation.

> 150 million people still shit in the open in India. Yet they landed on the moon [1], how about that. I assume they're theoretically capable of producing medicine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrayaan-3

-Who funded the moon mission? What are their incentives?

-Who owns the pharmaceutical plants? What are their incentives?

Re: Threat in Your Medicine Cabinet: The FDA's Gamble on America's Drugs

#70

Post by ASalazarMX »

quickthrowman wrote: post #63
barbazoo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain?

150 million people still shit in the open in India. Is that a sufficient explanation? It’s substantially better than it used to be. FWIW I believe the people of India deserve to have proper sanitation.

People still joke about chinesium smoke escaping cheap electronics, yet China likely made many quality devices you use daily. It can work, but it needs strict controls.
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