The Hidden Subversive Message in Gangnam Style • Hacker News Board

Re: The Hidden Subversive Message in Gangnam Style

#41

Post by w1ntermute » Fri, Aug 24, 2012, 6:12 AM UTC

Steko wrote: post #40

w1ntermute wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The way obscure artists break into the us market is by signing with a US label. > This is flatly not an option for Kpop artists signed with a Korean label. This is completely wrong. Korean artists who've made a play for the US market have signed with US labels. For example, the Wonder Girls are managed by JYP Entertainment in South Korea, DefStar Records in Japan, and by Jonas Records in the US.

Wikipedia indicates Jonas Records may be defunct, it certainly wasn't ever Warner Brothers. SNSD is with Interscope, 2NE1 is signed with Will I Am's label. If you have to sign with a 2nd tier label because you are basically an indentured servant to the Korean label that's been training you for 6 years your odds of being a huge breakthrough success in the US are going to plummet.

My point is that there isn't some kind of contractual obligation that prevents K-pop artists from signing with foreign labels for activities in those countries. If you look at Japan, you can see dozens of K-pop artists who've signed with local labels who have no connections with the Korean labels that those artists are signed with.

If K-pop artists have failed to sign with any major US labels, that's because those labels analyzed the artists and determined that they would not be successful enough to warrant signing them. Interscope is a major label, is it not? So why hasn't SNSD succeeded? See these posts for some clues:

http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2...

And see this post on why Psy succeeded:

http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2...

Re: The Hidden Subversive Message in Gangnam Style

#42

Post by Steko » Fri, Aug 24, 2012, 6:14 AM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #39

Steko wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Please describe by which metric do you mean impossibly high. Billboard rankings?" What were the Billboard expectations for Kpop in 2011? If your expectations were "about the same as in 2010" then they were drastically exceeded. Were the expectations that they would "dominate the charts"? Then I will say your expectations were impossibly high. "Your google insights link points to graphs regarding Hawaii. How exactly…

> You can repeat the thing in New York, New Jersey, California, many major metro areas, etc. And you will find that in areas without disproportionately large Asian-American populations, they are basically unheard of. > The point is not that they are more popular then Snoop Dogg or that Snoop Dogg if the biggest artist in the US. Then why did you even mention Snoop Dogg? How is his popularity relevant at all?

"And you will find that in areas without disproportionately large Asian-American populations, they are basically unheard of."

Yes I'm not claiming they are huge stars.

"Then why did you even mention Snoop Dogg? How is his popularity relevant at all?"

Pretty sure the answer to this question was in the part you didn't quote.

Re: The Hidden Subversive Message in Gangnam Style

#43

Post by Steko » Fri, Aug 24, 2012, 6:22 AM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #41

Steko wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia indicates Jonas Records may be defunct, it certainly wasn't ever Warner Brothers. SNSD is with Interscope, 2NE1 is signed with Will I Am's label. If you have to sign with a 2nd tier label because you are basically an indentured servant to the Korean label that's been training you for 6 years your odds of being a huge breakthrough success in the US are going to plummet.

My point is that there isn't some kind of contractual obligation that prevents K-pop artists from signing with foreign labels for activities in those countries. If you look at Japan, you can see dozens of K-pop artists who've signed with local labels who have no connections with the Korean labels that those artists are signed with. If K-pop artists have failed to sign with any major US labels, that's because those la…

No connections? Virtually all activities everywhere are carefully planned by the Korean labels. These groups can't even crap unless they have their handlers' permission.

Re: The Hidden Subversive Message in Gangnam Style

#44

Post by w1ntermute » Fri, Aug 24, 2012, 6:23 AM UTC

Steko wrote: post #42

w1ntermute wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can repeat the thing in New York, New Jersey, California, many major metro areas, etc. And you will find that in areas without disproportionately large Asian-American populations, they are basically unheard of. > The point is not that they are more popular then Snoop Dogg or that Snoop Dogg if the biggest artist in the US. Then why did you even mention Snoop Dogg? How is his popularity relevant at all?

"And you will find that in areas without disproportionately large Asian-American populations, they are basically unheard of." Yes I'm not claiming they are huge stars. "Then why did you even mention Snoop Dogg? How is his popularity relevant at all?" Pretty sure the answer to this question was in the part you didn't quote.

> Yes I'm not claiming they are huge stars.

They're not stars at all. They've gained popularity among Asian Americans - no surprise there, K-pop is a pan-Asian phenomenon, and as recent immigrants, many Asian Americans have strong ties to their home countries' cultures.

But among those who are American through and through? Nothing.

> Pretty sure the answer to this question was in the part you didn't quote.

Pretty sure it wasn't. Snoop Dogg isn't some kind of control you can use for assessing the popularity over time of K-pop artists. If he's decreased in popularity, then it would appear as if they've increased, when in reality the increase was relative. In any case, past trends are not a solid indication of the future. K-pop's popularity in the US will probably plateau once the Asian American audience has been saturated.

Re: The Hidden Subversive Message in Gangnam Style

#45

Post by w1ntermute » Fri, Aug 24, 2012, 6:27 AM UTC

Steko wrote: post #43

w1ntermute wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that there isn't some kind of contractual obligation that prevents K-pop artists from signing with foreign labels for activities in those countries. If you look at Japan, you can see dozens of K-pop artists who've signed with local labels who have no connections with the Korean labels that those artists are signed with. If K-pop artists have failed to sign with any major US labels, that's because those la…

No connections? Virtually all activities everywhere are carefully planned by the Korean labels. These groups can't even crap unless they have their handlers' permission.

What actually happens on the ground is besides the point. Once again, I'm referring to contractual obligations. There is nothing stopping a successful K-pop group from signing with Interscope, as you yourself pointed out. The issue is that American labels are not interested in them, because there's little chance of them succeeding.

And why would JYP Entertainment or SM Entertainment refuse to allow a successful group like SNSD to sign with an American label, if that's what it takes to achieve success? Like you said yourself, success in America isn't possible unless you sign with a major label. So it seems like that's exactly what they'd do (and exactly what happened with SNSD). Yet SNSD hasn't succeeded in America. Care to explain that?

Re: The Hidden Subversive Message in Gangnam Style

#46

Post by Steko » Fri, Aug 24, 2012, 6:45 AM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #44

Steko wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And you will find that in areas without disproportionately large Asian-American populations, they are basically unheard of." Yes I'm not claiming they are huge stars. "Then why did you even mention Snoop Dogg? How is his popularity relevant at all?" Pretty sure the answer to this question was in the part you didn't quote.

> Yes I'm not claiming they are huge stars. They're not stars at all . They've gained popularity among Asian Americans - no surprise there, K-pop is a pan-Asian phenomenon, and as recent immigrants, many Asian Americans have strong ties to their home countries' cultures. But among those who are American through and through? Nothing. > Pretty sure the answer to this question was in the part you didn't quote. Pretty su…

"They're not stars at all. "

The 'failure' we're talking about is contingent on some level of expectations. I didn't expect them to be stars. They are more notable then I would have expected given the history of Jpop and Cpop and Bollywood etc. in America. Obviously you're expectations of success were much higher so you can flatly declare them as failures.

"Snoop Dogg isn't some kind of control you can use for assessing the popularity over time of K-pop artists."

No one has suggested that is the case. Have mercy on the straw men, they've got kids to feed.

"K-pop's popularity in the US will probably plateau once the Asian American audience has been saturated."

I've seen conventional wisdom like this before. It's always supremely confident and sometimes it's right but just as often wrong. Anime was supposed to be a niche forever but DBZ is a part of every American kids upbringing now.

Re: The Hidden Subversive Message in Gangnam Style

#47

Post by batista » Fri, Aug 24, 2012, 12:05 PM UTC

Steko wrote: post #43

w1ntermute wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that there isn't some kind of contractual obligation that prevents K-pop artists from signing with foreign labels for activities in those countries. If you look at Japan, you can see dozens of K-pop artists who've signed with local labels who have no connections with the Korean labels that those artists are signed with. If K-pop artists have failed to sign with any major US labels, that's because those la…

No connections? Virtually all activities everywhere are carefully planned by the Korean labels. These groups can't even crap unless they have their handlers' permission.

>Virtually all activities everywhere are carefully planned by the Korean labels.

Which is beside the point.

Why wouldn't those Korean labels want to negotiate deals with US labels for their artists?