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US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

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Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#171

I feel like anyone serious about doing actual journalism needs to start with a decent Cyber Security 101 course. Does anyone know of one?

I mean what can you feasibly do against these zero-click exploits? There's only really two things you can do:

1. keep your phone's identifiers secret, as they must target the devices in some way (like phone number/email/whatever)

or

2. don't own a phone

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More genocidal rhetoric. The nazis are infamous because in part, they were doing settler colonialism in Europe. They were getting free land from lesser beings and promising homesteads to their officers. Israel is doing settler colonialism to people that had nothing to do with WW2 and the holocaust. If you have a problem with the Germans, take it up with Germany. My understanding is that in Gaza, it is a common unders…

[flagged]

Jews and other indigenous Palestinians lived in mostly peace until the zionists came. You are a zionist genocide supporter, and islamophobic at that.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#173
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More genocidal rhetoric. The nazis are infamous because in part, they were doing settler colonialism in Europe. They were getting free land from lesser beings and promising homesteads to their officers. Israel is doing settler colonialism to people that had nothing to do with WW2 and the holocaust. If you have a problem with the Germans, take it up with Germany. My understanding is that in Gaza, it is a common unders…

> Israel is doing settler colonialism to people that had nothing to do with WW2 and the holocaust. If you have a problem with the Germans, take it up with Germany. > [...] it is a common understanding that they are being subjected to a Nazi extermination campaign by people (Christian and Jewish Zionists) claiming the Holocaust made them do it That is not what Israel is doing. Israel is attacking a semi-state that inv…

> Israel is attacking a semi-state that invaded and slaughtered its people.

Israel has been conducting a campaign of (and even has openly described it in terms very closely paralleling the definition of) genocide against the Palestinian people throughout Palestine since decades before its for for-show semi-diseengagement from Gaza (heck, even for decades before it fostered the creation of Hamas while it occupied Gaza to split Palestinian resistance from its unified backing of the less Islamist, more pan-Arab nationalist PLO.)

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#174
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes the comment "genocidal" exactly?

"most are combatants" serves to justify the ongoing genocide when the opposite is true in reality. The reality is most combatants are underground so Israel bombs civilians. This is in line with its war goals of ethnically cleansing Gaza so there is no contestation of its colonial claims. Currently, Israel and the United States are luring starving Gazans with a pittance of aid into kill boxes using the intelligence fr…

> "most are combatants" serves to justify the ongoing genocide when the opposite is true in reality.

I disagree with that part of the comment (and said so), but disagreed on a factual statement does not make a comment genocidal.

> The reality is most combatants are underground so Israel bombs civilians. This is in line with its war goals of ethnically cleansing Gaza so there is no contestation of its colonial claims.

This is simply false. Despite the common view of the world, outside of isolated incidents, there is almost no evidence that Israel intentionally targets civilians for bombing. It accepts civilian casualties, but only given a valid military target.

You can say a lot of bad things about what Israel is doing, and I do so. I'm against the current war and have very negative views of a lot of Israeli actions. But you're thinking things that you have no evidence for (and lots of evidence against).

> Currently, Israel and the United States are luring starving Gazans with a pittance of aid into kill boxes using the intelligence front "Gaza Humanitarian Foundation". It's sick and depraved.

This is both wrong, and doesn't make much sense. Why would Israel need to "lure" Gazans into kill boxes to kill them? Many/most are clustered together in refugee tents. If Israel were truly fine with bombing civilians, it could easily bomb these centers. Why would it need to "lure" anyone anywhere?

Here's an alternative possibility - Hamas, which the Gazan people themselves hate and are protesting daily, has been using aid to keep control of the population, by stealing it and selling it to civilians. The GHF is threatening this model, so Hamas is doing everything it can to get rid of it - including threatening its personnel (this is on record as having happened), and including causing problems, up to and including shooting Palestinians to make the operation of the GHF look bad.

What makes you so sure this isn't what's happening?

(Personally, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle and I don't know where exactly it is. This clearly threatens Hamas and they clearly have lots of incentives to make it fail, and have clearly tried to do so... but it's also possible that the criticisms of the GHF are correct, that it's poorly conceived and poorly run, and works in a dehumanizing way that has no chance to serve the population aid in an effective manner.)

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#175
post #117
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Israel is powerful, but also has powerful enemies. That's entirely consistent and happens to be entirely true. And yes, Israel is a tiny country, both compared to almost all its enemies, and just objectively - it's one of the smallest countries in the world.

I was calling out the parent for acting with incredulity to someone saying that Israel has a vast spy network. One that is routinely bragged about in Israel by Israelis.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#178
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel is doing settler colonialism to people that had nothing to do with WW2 and the holocaust. If you have a problem with the Germans, take it up with Germany. > [...] it is a common understanding that they are being subjected to a Nazi extermination campaign by people (Christian and Jewish Zionists) claiming the Holocaust made them do it That is not what Israel is doing. Israel is attacking a semi-state that inv…

> Israel is attacking a semi-state that invaded and slaughtered its people. Israel has been conducting a campaign of (and even has openly described it in terms very closely paralleling the definition of) genocide against the Palestinian people throughout Palestine since decades before its for for-show semi-diseengagement from Gaza (heck, even for decades before it fostered the creation of Hamas while it occupied Gaza…

So Israel has been conducting genocide against Palestinians for decades? That's simply preposterous. There's zero reason to think so, and many, many reasons to think it's not true.

> since decades before its for for-show semi-diseengagement from Gaza

So when Israel does do what Palestinians supposedly want - completely remove all its citizens from the territory and hand it over to Palestinians to control - then it's all "for show"? In what way exactly? What should Israel do then that would satisfy you/Palestinians?

> (heck, even for decades before it fostered the creation of Hamas while it occupied Gaza to split Palestinian resistance from its unified backing of the less Islamist, more pan-Arab nationalist PLO.)

You're kind of skipping over the part where Israel engaged in a peace process with the PLO, signed the Oslo accords with them, recognized them as the official representatives of the Palestinian people in the form of the Palestinian Authority, continued working towards peace with the PA until 2008 (ending in, as always before it, an offer for a two-state solution presented to the PA by Olmert, which they rejected). And has worked in security cooperation with the PA since.

Although to be clear, I think Israel has not engaged in any meaningful attempt at peace since 2009, and has in fact done quite the opposite. Criticism of Israel propping up Hamas on purpose to weaken the chance of a two-state solution is a valid one, but it happened after Israelis got largely disillusioned with the idea of any peace being reached, given the multiple failures of PA leadership to sign 2SS deals with Israel, and the simultaneous launching of the Second Intifada.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#179
post #17

There is now a rich history in outsourcing activities that would otherwise be illegal to other countries where it is legal. For example, the CIA's extreme rendition [1], knowingly sending prisoners to countries to be tortured and/or executed. This is how such countries make themselves useful to American empire. Likewise, restrictions on the NSA spying on American citizens, for example, are bypassed by outsourcing tha…

Chomsky described these countries as "mercenary states". One of his books, Understanding Power, dives into the topic quite a bit.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#180
post #175
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is powerful, but also has powerful enemies. That's entirely consistent and happens to be entirely true. And yes, Israel is a tiny country, both compared to almost all its enemies, and just objectively - it's one of the smallest countries in the world.

I was calling out the parent for acting with incredulity to someone saying that Israel has a vast spy network. One that is routinely bragged about in Israel by Israelis.

You're right, but the parent wasn't saying Israel has a vast spy network, they said Israel has the "biggest spy network ever invented, which is woven into practically all software and tech infrastructure we use in the West [...]".

That goes far beyond the realm of reality and parent is right to ridicule it.

Israel has (presumably) a pretty great spy network, but mostly around its immediate enemies. It's certainly much smaller than many other countries' spy networks, I imagine.

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