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US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

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Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#111

Post by woodruffw »

DSingularity wrote: post #90
breppp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the fact that companies sell offensive cyber warfare software to governments is not new, and that specific company isn't either. There's also nothing inherently wrong with selling intelligence tools to a western government, Italy is not Iran or Zambia. And fighting terror or crime using software is valid. The only thing that surprises me is that a western government might attack journalists, and what I'd lik…

An incredible self awareness for you to write “There's also nothing inherently wrong with selling intelligence tools to a western government, Italy is not Iran or Zambia”. I wonder how Iran or Zambia feel about the west? The overthrow of their democracy. The colonial exploitations. Are those legit grievances in your eyes? Or are you a “take up the white mans burden” kind of person?

I don't think you have to believe Western countries are morally blameless to think that Iran's use of spyware would probably have materially worse effects for whoever they spy on. It's clear to me at least that the West can both be blamed for the effects of colonialism and that the victims of colonialism can do plenty of bad things on their own.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#112

Post by edanm »

DSingularity wrote: post #90
breppp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the fact that companies sell offensive cyber warfare software to governments is not new, and that specific company isn't either. There's also nothing inherently wrong with selling intelligence tools to a western government, Italy is not Iran or Zambia. And fighting terror or crime using software is valid. The only thing that surprises me is that a western government might attack journalists, and what I'd lik…

An incredible self awareness for you to write “There's also nothing inherently wrong with selling intelligence tools to a western government, Italy is not Iran or Zambia”. I wonder how Iran or Zambia feel about the west? The overthrow of their democracy. The colonial exploitations. Are those legit grievances in your eyes? Or are you a “take up the white mans burden” kind of person?

If you're claiming that Iran's government is somehow morally equivalent to Italy's, you're massively wrong.

It's not about "the white mans burden", whatever that means. It's about Iran's government not being democratically elected, being massively unpopular with its own populace that can't do anything about it cause it's not a democracy, enforcing religious laws on people that often don't want them, not respecting minorities. And oh, btw, investing billions of dollars in promoting terror all across the Middle East, with the stated goal of eradicating Israel (and, eventually, the US).

So, I don't really care how Iran's rulers feel about the US - they're evil. If you can't recognize that, you've lost the plot.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#113

Post by myth_drannon »

yosefk wrote: post #47
coliveira wrote: post #10

Just a small part of the biggest spy network ever invented, which is woven into practically all software and tech infrastructure we use in the West and backed by large corporations with ties to that small country.

[flagged]

Didn't you know you also have space lasers? Anyone can be instantly vaporized at any point on Earth.

A joke from 1930's Nazi Germany:

"Two Jews are sitting on a bench in Nazi Germany. One of them is reading the local Yiddish newspaper. The other is reading Der Sturmer, a Nazi propaganda paper. The former says to the latter, “Why on earth would you read that antisemitic drek?” The other replies, “Well, when I read the local paper, we are a poor and battered people who suffer in ghettos, pogroms, and all manner of tragedies. But when I read Der Sturmer, we run the banks, the governments, the whole world – life is great!” "

I got a feeling things are going to get really ugly soon, dejavu germany in 1930 but with more powerful propaganda tools.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#114

Post by edanm »

croes wrote: post #21
breppp wrote: post #4

It's amazing that US and Israel are the only countries mentioned in the headline While the story itself is about Italy spying on a journalist in another EU country But I guess news sites needs them clicks

Most of the time the country of the creator is named if it’s about spyware. The misuse of such tools outweighs the legitimate use cases, so people want to know who is so reckless to sell these programs

> The misuse of such tools outweighs the legitimate use cases, so people want to know who is so reckless to sell these programs

Do you have any evidence of this?

Cause my guess is the misuse is the stuff you hear about because it eventually makes the news. But the thousands or millions of legitimate use cases in which it prevented terror attacks or just, y'know, helped solved crimes, are just routine and don't get a mention.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#115

Post by Xelbair »

breppp wrote: post #12
kennywinker wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Headlines are written by the publisher not the author. They’re written to maximize readership. The fact that spying happened in italy by italians is mostly only interesting to italians. The fact that the US backs an israeli company that sells spying tools is interesting to many more people. You can see the selling clicks, but because they’re not twisting the truth or saying something misleading - in this case I mostl…

However, the fact that companies sell offensive cyber warfare software to governments is not new, and that specific company isn't either. There's also nothing inherently wrong with selling intelligence tools to a western government, Italy is not Iran or Zambia. And fighting terror or crime using software is valid. The only thing that surprises me is that a western government might attack journalists, and what I'd lik…

are you... serious?

no I'm genuinely curious - because no matter who you sell it to it will be used against its own populace - look at bloody PRISM(mass data collection of internet traffic in US by NSA in case you weren't aware), Echelon(older project targeted at radio transmissions), 5eyes(US, UK, AUS, NZ, CN asking each other to spy on their own citizens as a loophole) .. or any other scandal in EU when it leaked that such spyware was used against journalists investigating government corruption. Or in Mexico, or anywhere else.

How you are surprised that "western government" might attack journalists when there has been proof of them doing that for years?!

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#117

Post by edanm »

dttze wrote: post #104
yosefk wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Israel is powerful, but also has powerful enemies. That's entirely consistent and happens to be entirely true.

And yes, Israel is a tiny country, both compared to almost all its enemies, and just objectively - it's one of the smallest countries in the world.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#118

Post by burkaman »

jplrssn wrote: post #98
burkaman wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attending a political party's events and reporting what they say and do is petty?

Deploying spyware against journalists in retaliation for their exposing racism in the governing party's youth wing is petty.

Sorry I misunderstood, I thought you were saying Fanpage's actions were petty.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#119

Post by tehjoker »

myth_drannon wrote: post #108
hersko wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> -The bald eagle that is also the only country in history to have nuked two civilian cities. It was this or invade which would have easily resulted in more casualties. Pretending the US just nuked them when the other option was nothing is childish. > - Its best friend, the country that's commiting a genocide in 2025 and that you cannot criticize. Ongoing wars in 2025 and casualty numbers according to Grok: - Russia-…

Israel-Palestine war stats is really off, because the Palestinian officials also include natural deaths in those stats (8,000 per year in Gaza). So the total is more like 40,000-50,000, and most are combatants.

Genocidal comment. It is well known the stats are an undercount due to the genocidal starvation, disease, and deprivation, collapsing buildings on people that are never counted, and the many videos of e.g. Israelis burning children alive in tents.

"True death toll from conflict in Gaza is 41% higher than reported, study estimates" https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r73

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#120

Post by [deleted] »

myth_drannon wrote: post #113
yosefk wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Didn't you know you also have space lasers? Anyone can be instantly vaporized at any point on Earth. A joke from 1930's Nazi Germany: "Two Jews are sitting on a bench in Nazi Germany. One of them is reading the local Yiddish newspaper. The other is reading Der Sturmer, a Nazi propaganda paper. The former says to the latter, “Why on earth would you read that antisemitic drek?” The other replies, “Well, when I read the…

[deleted]
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