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Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

latimes.com

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Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#171

Post by alistairSH »

alistairSH wrote: post #43
palmfacehn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a starting premise, we might define "enough" as a balanced budget.

We could cut 100% of discretionary spending and might just balance the budget. If you really want a balanced budget, you need to figure out how to slow the growth of mandatory spending and increase revenue. Neither of which Trump or the GOP seem interested in doing.

Apparently somebody takes issue with my comment, so here's the CBO's own analysis for 2024[1].

Total Revenue: 4.9 trillion

Mandatory Spending: 4.1 trillion

Net Interest: 0.9 trillion

Discretionary Spending: 1.8 trillion

Yes, we could zero out discretionary spending and just barely eke out a balanced budget. We either need more revenue OR a complete reset on the social contract for a long-term balanced budget.

1 - https://www.cbo.gov/publication/61185

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#174

Post by timeon »

Theodores wrote: post #92
davidw wrote: post #31

Well, yes, that's the point. Authoritarians want to consolidate power and loot wealth, not improve things or make the world a better place.

It is the art of the deal with Trump and I would say that he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian. Trump has a massive ego and I would have expected him to want the biggest rockets, and to pain them gold. If he did then I would denounce him for spending money on space when America has trillions of debt. I don't disagree with him on everything he says just because he said it. So, with space, my honest take is tha…

He is not that relevant here because he is senile at this point. "Authoritarian" is what is made by people around him.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#175

Post by jmull »

Theodores wrote: post #92
davidw wrote: post #31

Well, yes, that's the point. Authoritarians want to consolidate power and loot wealth, not improve things or make the world a better place.

It is the art of the deal with Trump and I would say that he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian. Trump has a massive ego and I would have expected him to want the biggest rockets, and to pain them gold. If he did then I would denounce him for spending money on space when America has trillions of debt. I don't disagree with him on everything he says just because he said it. So, with space, my honest take is tha…

> he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian

Surely you understand that narcissism doesn’t somehow exclude authoritarianism? Rather the opposite, right?

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#176

Post by method_capital »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #129
blindriver wrote: post #109

[flagged]

The biggest driver of increasing debt has been tax cuts for the rich. If you really cared about the national debt you would be campaigning hard against the proposed budget.

Since the 1960s, revenue from total taxation as a percent of gdp is unchanged. Not also the difference in tax revenue between Europe and America stems mostly from policies that tax the middle class not the "rich":

https://manhattan.institute/article/a-comprehensive-federal-...

The U.S. already taxes the rich—measured by both tax rates and tax revenues—at levels roughly equal to the OECD average. Yes, the other 38 OECD nations collect tax revenues that, on average, exceed the U.S. by 7.5% of GDP (at all levels of government). However, nearly this entire difference results from the other 38 OECD nations hitting their middle class with value-added taxes (VATs) that raise an average of 7.2% of GDP. And while the progressive avatars of Finland, Norway, and Sweden exceed U.S. tax revenues by 16% of GDP, that gap virtually disappears after accounting for the 14.5% of GDP in higher payroll and VAT revenues that broadly hit the Nordic middle class. Europe finances its progressive spending levels on the backs of the middle class, not the wealthy.[37]

This plan should be a must read for people from any spot along the American political spectrum.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#177

Post by leptons »

fzeroracer wrote: post #13
frogperson wrote: post #4

Trump admin is just so selfish and parasitic. How do they not understand that science, research, and innovation are what drive the economy they are trying to rob? Truly evil and incompetent.

One of the big problems of having a government ran by an oligarchic gerontocracy is that none of the people in charge are going to care about long term effects because they'll be dead before it affects them. So they maximize short term value extraction and destruction. It's not strictly a far right issue either, the dems are feckless and useless for similar reasons being that any sort of long term consequences does n…

> the dems are feckless and useless for similar reasons being that any sort of long term consequences does not matter to them.

Please elaborate on this.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#178

Post by popularrecluse »

stronglikedan wrote: post #172
davidw wrote: post #31

Well, yes, that's the point. Authoritarians want to consolidate power and loot wealth, not improve things or make the world a better place.

[flagged]

That's some strong shit yer smokin

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#179

Post by somenameforme »

alistairSH wrote: post #47
hackyhacky wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a balanced budget is your goal, only two steps are required: reduce military spending, increase taxes. No need to cut research. In practice the current budget bill is wildly unbalanced and will vastly extend our debt, despite extensive cuts to important programs.

We could zero out the military budget and that still doesn't get us anywhere close to balanced. Even cutting 100% of discretionary spending barely does the job. We either need massive cuts in mandatory spending (fundamental changes to social contract) or increased revenue (politically not viable). There's also near zero evidence we actually need a balanced budget for a healthy economy.

> There's also near zero evidence we actually need a balanced budget for a healthy economy.

I don't think this is really supportable. Obviously one can appeal to the practically endless examples of countries that destroyed their own economies with debt. Of course the obvious argument to this is that this hasn't happened to the US. But there were extremely unique, and liminal, circumstances that explain this, that a search on "exporting inflation" [1] can largely explain. And those days are mostly behind us.

We can see this playing out in practice. Current interest payments on the debt are now $1.1 trillion per year. They've grown exponentially, far faster than the debt has. [2] The reason for this is that we can't just handwave away inflation so easily anymore, so we're now experiencing more like what would happen to other countries that let their money printers get a bit too excited. The Fed is keeping rates high in hopes of bringing inflation down, but it's just not really working. What this means is that when the government sells treasuries (which is how they 'print money') they need to offer ever higher interest rates. Notably even 20 year treasuries right now are offering yields of about 5%, so it seems most are not enthusiastic about things getting much better.

I think we're well on our way to becoming another of history's cautionary tales that the next great power will also certainly think doesn't apply to them, because if something hasn't exploded in 50 years, that must mean it'll never explode.

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[1] - https://search.brave.com/search?q=exporting+inflation

[2] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A091RC1Q027SBEA

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