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Why Koreans ask what year you were born

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Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#151

Post by mensetmanusman »

bambax wrote: post #6

> The younger person also addresses the older person, usually with a title or another word that fits their relationship, but not their name. Only the older person addresses the younger one with their name. (There can be more nuance.) I love this. I'm an old French guy and still can't quite accept when srangers in an email (or a machine, a system, a web form) adress me using my first name. Being "on a first name basis…

Now that I know that every culture approaches this differently, it takes zero effort to not be annoyed when someone does something different than what I expect.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#152

Post by nobody9999 »

nindalf wrote: post #92
contrarian1234 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the "power distance" is pre-existing - I find honorifics make it much easier to challenge someone in authority. If you start with a Mr/Mrs Blah or Professor Blah and then present critcism.. it typically comes off better. B/c you are showing you're not too chummy and you're strongly implying you respect them (at least somewhat). Ex: You're in a lecture and you tell your professor "Professor X, I think on slid…

Yeah in my personal experience I like honorifics for the same reason. Not possible in English but in the other languages I know I make it a point to address everyone (except family and friends) with the higher honorific. Especially restaurant staff or other service workers. Sometimes I wish English had an easy way for me to convey "I respect you" as subtext.

>Sometimes I wish English had an easy way for me to convey "I respect you" as subtext.

I find that sir/ma'am plus politeness (please, thank you, etc.) works nicely.

While there is the chance that you might misgender someone with that, that's not very common (at least for me) as long as you, you know, pay attention.

That said unless they have a note tattooed on their forehead with their preferred term of address, I can only use non-language cues to determine the appropriate term.

On the rare occasions where I use the wrong term and am corrected, I am fastidious in adhering to the requested term(s).

None of that's is rocket surgery, just simple respect for other humans IMHO.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#153

Post by wahern »

dustincoates wrote: post #39
johngossman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These things come and go across times and cultures. Even in the United States, which many people think of as highly informal, it was once common to refer to almost everyone outside the family formally. My grandmother talked to her next door neighbor everyday and they said "Hello, Mrs. G-" and "How are you, Mrs. S-". You also see this in 19th century American and English literature ("Mr. Darcy")

At least when I was growing up, it was still the norm in the South/Texas. My parents would have never referred to the elderly in our neighborhood by their first names.

In rural Georgia my father's wife, still 15+ years my senior, would always "yessir" and "no sir" me, just as she did with everyone else (ma'am for women, of course). And this was in the past 10 years. Even my half-siblings from rural Alabama do that generally, but not nearly so strictly with family like myself. Use of last names, though, is still reserved for non-family elders.

Conversely, in coastal California that kind of speech is actively (even aggressively) discouraged, such as in public schools, higher grades, especially. It's still appreciated in more traditional communities, though, such as black or immigrant Asian communities. Code switching isn't limited to certain minority groups; even affluent coastal white folks often end of code switching.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#154

Post by silenced_trope »

socalgal2 wrote: post #53

This "high power distance" culture contributed to several airline crashes in the 80s and 90s because people under the captain wouldn't dare to question the captain's decisions. One in particular: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Flight_801

Relevant:

Nathan Fielder's show "The Rehearsal" on HBO recently released season 2, the entire season is about airline cockpit dynamics between the first officer and the pilot.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#155

Post by davidw »

tauchunfall wrote: post #56
benediktwerner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, as a German (which also has a similar system), I am the complete opposite, I find it super irritating when people address me by my last name. And the worst part is having to figure out how to address others, especially people you've known for a while but aren't really close to, e.g. say long-time neighbors I rarely meet. Luckily, in the IT industry, it's common to just use first names with everybody.

>I find it super irritating when people address me by my last name. Me too. There are still German companies where coworkers address others with Herr or Frau followed by their last name. I find it also interesting how people that learn German understand the difference between the "you" in formal ("sie") and informal ("du") version, but often don't understand in which context du use them. In most cases you can use the…

As a born and raised English speaker and fluent Italian speaker, I still don't love the "tu / lei". It's very... binary as to what gets used. Sometimes that's easy, but the marginal cases can be difficult to figure out.

I think the tone and posture when addressing someone convey enough formality. Like if I met Barack Obama, I would be very formal and respectful in my bearing and language, but of course still use 'you'.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#156

Post by yongjik »

kinleyd wrote: post #35

As a young man many years ago I happened to be in Seoul, in a shoe store. I was casually asking prices in English and noticed the salesman or owner was getting visibly angry with me. So much so that as I went around the corner of the store I clearly saw that he had begun advancing toward me, with every intention of physically attacking me. I put my hand forward to stop him and as I did, I shouted loudly, again in Eng…

Umm... I'm not sure I follow. You were casually asking prices in English and the shopowner jumped to the conclusion that you were trolling him by using English when you were fluent in Korean?

If it was around that time, most Koreans were not good at English, and it's not exactly hard to tell a native English speaker from a Korean who learned "I'm a boy, you are a girl" in middle school.

Sounds like the shopowner was just a jerk and was mad for some random reason.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#157

Post by skygazer »

anal_reactor wrote: post #132
staticman2 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your example the American CEO said you are family. Do you frequently tell you mom, dad, brothers, children and in laws about your sex life? Of course not. Whatever problem the American in this hypothetical is having, name conventions are not likely to help.

> Do you frequently tell you mom, dad, brothers, children and in laws about your sex life? Yes.

Do you find they look at you the same way your CEO did? If not, you apparently have unusually "special" relationships.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#158

Post by thaumasiotes »

cafard wrote: post #100
sfifs wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I find addressing people by surname uniquely stupid. Like are you calling the person or the historical clan? It perhaps made sense for medieval lords to address their underlings as if they were interchangeable, in our modern context that has largely done away with royalty, using surnames makes no sense. It becomes even more interesting when traditionally cultures (like mine) don't use surnames, but modern IT sys…

I think American high school kids often refer to and address one another by surname. It was the case when at my son's high school, as I recall at my own, and I think at my wife's. It might have been the case at my father's, and perhaps my wife's parents--I'd have to look at the yearbooks.

Were your "American" high schools located on some other continent?

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#159

Post by stronglikedan »

GreyMolecules wrote: post #42

This article does not address another layer that makes the Korean age system complicated: the "빠른" system. It refers to people born in January or February who, due to the school cutoff being in March, often enter school a year early and socially identify with those born in the previous calendar year. For example, if I'm "빠른95", which indicates that I was born in 1995 between January and the end of February, I get to…

> Please note that Koreans typically make friends within the same narrow age band.

Everyone does to some degree or another. For example, Americans do this through middle school. It's not really until high school where you start mingling with other grades.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#160

Post by mattgreenrocks »

bmicraft wrote: post #115
lukan wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I am also not asking my grandparents for concrete life or technical advice. I am just talking about respect of their age, what they experienced and lived through.

I really don't get why just the concept of deserving respect for having lived longer - why does that make you more deserving of respect, irrespective of how you lived?

Think of it more as a little extra atop the basic courtesy due to all people (unless they prove otherwise).
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