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"Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

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Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#21

Post by genocidicbunny »

Waterluvian wrote: post #5

Every story like this has me thinking about two things: 1. Companies have no soul. They are, by design, just chasing revenue. Everything else is just a risk to be factored. 2. There are real humans at these companies who choose to take part in the business and design and engineering, etc. I don’t think these humans have no soul (though some won’t), and I don’t think they’re stupid (though some are). I think it’s just…

> I think it’s just very, very easy to create a system of people collectively doing evil things where no one person carries the burden of evil individually enough to really feel sick enough with what they’re contributing to.

Which is why I don't think punishing just the company itself is enough. The engineers, designers, PM's that implemented this should also receive punishment, sufficient enough to make anyone thinking of participating in the implementation of such systems has reason enough to feel sick, if only for their own skin. Make it clear that participating in such things carries the risk of losing your career, a lot of money, and potentially even your freedom.

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#24

Post by bnlxbnlx »

Waterluvian wrote: post #5

Every story like this has me thinking about two things: 1. Companies have no soul. They are, by design, just chasing revenue. Everything else is just a risk to be factored. 2. There are real humans at these companies who choose to take part in the business and design and engineering, etc. I don’t think these humans have no soul (though some won’t), and I don’t think they’re stupid (though some are). I think it’s just…

I think (haven't actually watched it, but on my watchlist) this is exactly what the movie "The Corporation" (2003) [1] lays out.

[1] https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0379225

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#25

Post by DrScientist »

Waterluvian wrote: post #5

Every story like this has me thinking about two things: 1. Companies have no soul. They are, by design, just chasing revenue. Everything else is just a risk to be factored. 2. There are real humans at these companies who choose to take part in the business and design and engineering, etc. I don’t think these humans have no soul (though some won’t), and I don’t think they’re stupid (though some are). I think it’s just…

> Companies have no soul. They are, by design, just chasing revenue. Everything else is just a risk to be factored.

I disagree - companies are set up/run by people, and those people define company culture/ company culture reflects those people.

Not all companies, even big ones, are the same.

To make that concrete - if Mark Zuckerberg found out about the above activity and was appalled and sacked everyone involved that would send out a very strong signal.

Note this particular method can't be a rogue one man job - it requires coordination across multiple parts of the Meta stack - senior people had to know - which would point to a rotten culture at Meta emanating from the top.

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#27

Post by JimDabell »

Waterluvian wrote: post #5

Every story like this has me thinking about two things: 1. Companies have no soul. They are, by design, just chasing revenue. Everything else is just a risk to be factored. 2. There are real humans at these companies who choose to take part in the business and design and engineering, etc. I don’t think these humans have no soul (though some won’t), and I don’t think they’re stupid (though some are). I think it’s just…

Is this just a particular case of diffusion of responsibility?

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#29

Post by gloxkiqcza »

ryukoposting wrote: post #18
ceejayoz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU doesn’t play around in this realm. 1.2 billion fine for an earlier incident: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2023/12-billion-euro-fi...

1.2B is less than 1% of Meta's revenue in FY2024. Maximum fines for infractions like these should exist on a sliding scale, as some percentage of prior revenue.

The point was it’s two orders of magnitude more than the original comment stated. Also 1% of yearly revenue is not insignificant.

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#30

Post by DrScientist »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #21
Waterluvian wrote: post #5

Every story like this has me thinking about two things: 1. Companies have no soul. They are, by design, just chasing revenue. Everything else is just a risk to be factored. 2. There are real humans at these companies who choose to take part in the business and design and engineering, etc. I don’t think these humans have no soul (though some won’t), and I don’t think they’re stupid (though some are). I think it’s just…

> I think it’s just very, very easy to create a system of people collectively doing evil things where no one person carries the burden of evil individually enough to really feel sick enough with what they’re contributing to. Which is why I don't think punishing just the company itself is enough. The engineers, designers, PM's that implemented this should also receive punishment, sufficient enough to make anyone think…

I'd argue that the person running the company in this case is responsible.

Now they may argue that they didn't know - but you can frame the law such that's it's their duty to know and ensure this sort of stuff doesn't happen.

cf Sarbanes-Oxley

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