My current favorite theory as to why there hasn't been more of an outcry is that many companies ignored the rule change (either out of ignorance or as an alternative to going out of business), and are forced to remain silent.
Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)
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Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)
#152This is less on that specific topic and more general: While I enjoy the hacker news forums a great deal, I've no relationship with YC as an org. I am not sure that YC has any particular interest in things that might impact me as an individual contributor in an org as much as it impacts them. Understandably there's an everyone for themselves aspect here, but that makes these kinds of call to actions a bit hollow to me…
Sure, YC is a business. But HN has so many people building software that there's also a community interest here—otherwise I wouldn't have suggested this thread. pg used to do this kind of thing on HN from time to time, especially on internet freedom issues, so this is a bit of return-to-roots for the site. SOPA is the one I remember but there were others.
Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)
#153Thanks for working on this guys. The current tax code is fairly crazy: you could spend a few million in salaries, sell 200k of software in a year and possibly owe taxes on that. Even if the company would otherwise be shutting down. The traditional capital asset treatment applied to software leaves a lot to be desired. Some software is a capital asset, but much just isn’t. Or at least should be considered to depreciat…
Isnt this just false? I thought corporate taxes are levied on net income?
It's technically correct that tax is levied on "net income", but that's an accounting term which means something different from "money_in - money_out" when there are capital assets.
One justification for this is, although you spent the cost, you received equivalent value in the form of the asset itself.
This means if it costs $100k in salary to make software this year, and you get $30k in income from the software this year, your bank balance will lose $70k (which is expected) and you'll have negative income in the ordinary way of thinking, but you'll be charged income tax (which is new) despite losing money, as if you gained (almost) $30k instead of losing $70k.
Your tax accounts will show an increase in net assets, despite the decrease in your bank balance, because they will show the software as being "worth" (almost) $100k, regardless of what it's really worth right now.
This is particularly hard if you're a small company or (non-VC-funded) startup that's already stretching to cover the cost of speculative software development. Being charged income tax even while you're losing money developing software (in the ordinary way of thinking about money) is what's new in the tax code. It makes it harder than before to do speculative developments, making some kinds of development non-viable that were viable before.
Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)
#154A lot of people don't know what this Section 174 is about, so here's a brief explainer. Normally, when you have expenses, you deduct them off your revenue to find your taxable profit. If you have $1 million in sales, and $900k in costs, you have $100k in profit, and the government taxes you on that profit. Section 174 says you can't do this for software engineers. If you pay a software engineer, that's not "really" a…
Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)
#155https://5calls.org/why-calling-works/
You don't need to use that site - the point is that if you want to have the loudest voice, make some calls.
Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)
#156A lot of people don't know what this Section 174 is about, so here's a brief explainer. Normally, when you have expenses, you deduct them off your revenue to find your taxable profit. If you have $1 million in sales, and $900k in costs, you have $100k in profit, and the government taxes you on that profit. Section 174 says you can't do this for software engineers. If you pay a software engineer, that's not "really" a…
So it applies to software engineers but under what definition of software engineer? This [1] is the only definition the code actually give. > (3) Software development > For purposes of this section, any amount paid or incurred in connection with the development of any software shall be treated as a research or experimental expenditure. 1. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/174 ----- Is a test or QA engineer c…
Of course not. The Glorious Leader is rescuing the american hardware sector.
Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)
#157[flagged]
Also, generally speaking, calling people "dummies" isn't usually an effective way to persuade them to examine your arguments rationally/logically.
Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
So it applies to software engineers but under what definition of software engineer? This [1] is the only definition the code actually give. > (3) Software development > For purposes of this section, any amount paid or incurred in connection with the development of any software shall be treated as a research or experimental expenditure. 1. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/174 ----- Is a test or QA engineer c…
> under what definition of software engineer? Probably a broad enough definition to net the US Government the greatest tax revenue possible for the effort to enact this.
Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)
#159For folks that don't know the background on this, here's a layperson summary: - A business is usually taxed on its profits: you deduct your revenue from the cost of producing that revenue, and the delta is what you are taxed on. - In software businesses, this usually means if you spend $1M in software development to develop a web app, and it makes $1.1M in that year, you'd get taxed on the $100K profits. - However, a…
While this does convey the idea, the premise is also biased. > even though it has a total of $100K in the bank after the actual expenses were paid. People running a business can perfectly understand the concept of liquidity. And yes, just because you transform money to something else, then it doesn't mean that you should not be taxed on it. The extreme example is a company that buys gold on the last trading day of th…
Maybe we can finally deduct all that technical debt.
Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
It wasn't intended to stick, it's a bad idea that was intentionally bad in order to make it easier to reverse.
I don't follow. What is the motivation of doing something intentionally bad to make it easy to reverse?
If you want to pass something using only 50% of our representatives you have to pay for it with something else to balance the change. 60% of the vote and you don’t care what the Congressional budget office says. The primary software development hubs are not Republican leaning. The same reason SALT was changed. Voting matters.