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Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

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Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#611
What do we even need to be sending people into space for? It seems like a lot of savings could be had if we just completely shut down the entire manned space program. Unless there is some direct business case for it, why do it at all? Don't tell me some vague definition of "science". This isn't some new frontier that needs exploring, its well understood at this point. There needs to be a direct benefit to the american tax payer to justify the cost of putting a person up there. I don't see a reason to send people to space, if something needs to be done, it can be automated and sent as an autonomous payload. Sending people to space feels wasteful in the age of robotics, fast data links and autonomous systems. If we can operate a rover on mars, we can do whatever needs to be done in orbit or the moon or deep space, without human aid.

It feels like a vanity and an anachronism to an era from the past. Manned space travel is risky, expensive, environmentally destructive, and for what? For some human being to manually manipulate scientific instruments in orbit that should have been, or could have been automated and get the same results?

Gone are the days where people actually think we could be living in space. From what we know now, not only is it impractical, dangerous, inefficient, its also unhealthy. This isn't a question of some new technology that needs created to support it, it's a limitation of physics and millions of years of evolution on earth.

Send satellites to orbit? Yes. Collect power from space? Yes. Conduct scientific research? Okay. But we don't need to send people to do that anymore. Manned space travel had its place in time, and it no longer makes sense to do it, so lets have the maturity to move on from the past.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#612

This reads like pretty classic infighting between a dictator and one of his more powerful cronies. I am surprised at how fast it happened, though. Usually this comes towards the end of a dictatorship. Maybe our dear leader is just as incompetent at being a dictator as he is everything else.

I was not as surprised. It is a lot like the pattern in his previous term with people that he brought on and then had a fallout with and they became the enemy like cabinet members, VP, etc. This second term is markedly different in that he appointed only due hard yes men. I think the only difference is that Musk was very useful for his money and independent sway.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It turns out that when elections are fought on the basis of identity (race, religion) etc corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. So how could one design a political system so this behavior doesn't emerge / is not incentivized?

Get rid of FPTP and the Electoral College that enables a two-party stranglehold. If a vote for a third party wasn't a wasted vote, we could see nuanced parties and politicians emerge that don't have to tow a party line.

You need to educate the people and convince them on how it works. Easily a 30 year project in places like India.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama was not his opposition, and that was not his campaign.

So when Trump admitted on Howard Stern that he likes to walk in on naked teenage girls because his role of running the teen universe beauty pageant allows him to get away with that, that is ok because he wasn't running a campaign at the time? Jump to 1:38 https://youtu.be/kikTv0I8XVw?si=VVfSpMDt7rKEIcRJ

What the heck are you talking about?

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#615

We have moved so past the "government is expected to be impartial" and now at "if musk backs a dem I will destroy him" stage. No one bats an eye. This is going to be the norm at least on the Republican Party. I worry every one expects presidents to weaponize everything against their perceived opponents.

That stood out to me, too. Even in the current environment, that's messed up. No, the sitting president does not get to threaten peoples' ability to make campaign contributions to the opposing party.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#616

What do we even need to be sending people into space for? It seems like a lot of savings could be had if we just completely shut down the entire manned space program. Unless there is some direct business case for it, why do it at all? Don't tell me some vague definition of "science". This isn't some new frontier that needs exploring, its well understood at this point. There needs to be a direct benefit to the america…

Are you unfamiliar with the many world-changing technologies and inventions that have come about because of the needs and drivers of the human space program? On what basis do you form the belief that we would not continue to develop and benefit from new world-changing innovations despite all historical evidence that says otherwise?

A huge amount of scientific invention is made incidentally to another goal. It's intensely myopic to disregard that.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#617
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn't; Trump just has a bigger stage. Trumpism is a misnomer by itself; Trump has no ideology, no grand scheme that I can discern.

> Trump has no ideology I wouldn't say it's a misnomer, the lack of ideology is the signature appeal. It's exactly what affords Trump unlimited flexibility among his supporters since there are no expectations of consistency.

Yeah, I would say "acquisition of and wielding power" is the signature feature of Trumpism, and why he appeals to so many.

Whether true or not (and FWIW, I think it is, at least to some degree), the left largely took the mantra of "tsk tsking" for a long time - you should feel bad about using a plastic straw, bad about driving your car, bad about the US' treatment of Native Americans, etc. etc. So Trump's complete shamelessness is appealing to many

I read a good post recently that explained that Trump and the Republican's rank hypocrisy is a feature, not a bug. It shows that Trump and his team are unbound by the constraints they want to apply to others.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media is easy to blame, but we had something similar, but worse happening in Germany well before the invention of the computer even. Human society has not developed an antidote to charismatic demagogues yet I'm afraid.

Sorry, but Germany had just suffered a humiliating defeat and was punished severely for WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it. When did something of this magnitude just happen in the USA? P.S.: This does not excuse Germany's actions wrt. WWII but it does help to explain.

Just an opinion, but -

An entire cohort born between 1985~1995 reached their 30s in what they perceived as a far, far worse situation all around (financially foremost, but also almost every social aspect) than their parents.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#619

What do we even need to be sending people into space for? It seems like a lot of savings could be had if we just completely shut down the entire manned space program. Unless there is some direct business case for it, why do it at all? Don't tell me some vague definition of "science". This isn't some new frontier that needs exploring, its well understood at this point. There needs to be a direct benefit to the america…

Are you unfamiliar with the many world-changing technologies and inventions that have come about because of the needs and drivers of the human space program? On what basis do you form the belief that we would not continue to develop and benefit from new world-changing innovations despite all historical evidence that says otherwise? A huge amount of scientific invention is made incidentally to another goal. It's inten…

I was waiting for this comment! What innovations have come about in the last 20 years of the human space program? Everyone always makes this claim but never can name a single one, or brings up unrelated things like the heat tiles on the space shuttle. What kinds of developments could not have been done with autonomous payloads?

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#620

What do we even need to be sending people into space for? It seems like a lot of savings could be had if we just completely shut down the entire manned space program. Unless there is some direct business case for it, why do it at all? Don't tell me some vague definition of "science". This isn't some new frontier that needs exploring, its well understood at this point. There needs to be a direct benefit to the america…

> This isn't some new frontier that needs exploring, its well understood at this point

This is where I started to think this was trolling and that it would soon devolve into overly satirical commentary to prove the opposite point. I was surprised it didn't do this. I'm very interested in this defeatist mentality, welp we know it's impractical we should stop trying. It's not only ignoring the advancements that manned space exploration has brought but seemingly ignores how advancements are done in general for all of human existence. This mindset would have us living in caves after a few hardships.

You could argue we know enough now but this overestimates how much humans know especially with respect to space

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