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Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

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Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>with whom the USA is currently engaged in a proxy war? USA isn't currently engaged a proxy war with Russia

Yes we are.

Ukraine is fighting a Russian invasion. And republicans are pressuring Ukraine to give up. How is that a proxy war?

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#522
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX is critical infrastructure to the US at this point and its continued availability and operation is of national security interest. That may sound like it gives Elon power. It's the opposite, actually. No US administration will take lightly threats to national security infrastructure like this. The nuclear option for any administration is to nationalize SpaceX, which they absolutely could do. Less nuclear: the U…

> nationalize SpaceX, which they absolutely could do. This isn't at all clear. It's clear that they could easily compel them to prioritize and fulfill government contracts. Far less clear that they could just take it. It is clear that the current administration could "try" but such an effort might result in a lawsuit that lasts longer than the administration does and thereby become moot.

It may take a long time to be fully litigated, but the courts also take a while to act, and we've seen that this administration takes full advantage of this fact. The odds are also stacked against Elon here because the national security interests would likely make a compelling argument to stay any injunctions SpaceX might seek. SpaceX might prevail in the end, but the whole process would get very uncomfortable for Elon in the meantime.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#523
post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So politics, not the merit of the EV company. This was a EV company summit, not a labor unions summit.

Policy difference not partisan squables or payback for supporting his opponents. Most Democrats feel Unions are important to help workers (union and nonunion) earn more.

To base the decision on what companies to invite to an EV summit on whether they support the Democrats' favorite constituents is pure politics. The only policy difference here is one which helps the Democrats win elections.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Democratic White House chose to not invite Tesla to their EV Summit. That was not political? The Democratic DoJ and Democrat DAGs prosecuted dozens of former Trump administration officials and Trump allies, and even Trump himself: Trump Administration Officials: Michael Flynn – Former National Security Advisor Stephen K. Bannon – Former White House Chief Strategist & Campaign Advisor Mark Meadows – Former White H…

I think you mean convicted. Because they did crimes. If they would stop doing crime they wouldn’t get convicted. Still waiting for someone to lock Hillary up. Oh wait…

There are hundreds of thousands of regulations carrying criminal penalties. If a political party is determined to imprison an opponent, it will find a law they’ve technically violated. In Trump’s case, they used an obscure accounting rule — one so trivial that even prominent Democratic supporters acknowledged it was an inappropriate basis for prosecution.

Hillary Clinton used a private email server while serving as Secretary of State, and in 2014, her staff deleted 31,000 emails they labeled personal to prevent them from being scrutinized in an impending investigation. You don't think that if Hillary had been a Republican and if the Democrats were determined to prosecute her, they couldn't have found some law that she broke and prosecuted her on it?

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#525

It's wild that a president can say, "I don't like Elon anymore, so out of retaliation, I'm canceling all his government contracts," and ~40% of the country doesn't see that as corruption in any way, shape, or form. Government contracts should not be based on whether or not the president likes the CEO, and the CEO says enough good things about the president. If you can cancel contacts not based on merit, then it shoul…

Trump is good at revealing the cracks in US democratic process, or lack thereof.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#526

It's wild that a president can say, "I don't like Elon anymore, so out of retaliation, I'm canceling all his government contracts," and ~40% of the country doesn't see that as corruption in any way, shape, or form. Government contracts should not be based on whether or not the president likes the CEO, and the CEO says enough good things about the president. If you can cancel contacts not based on merit, then it shoul…

> It's wild that a president can say, "I don't like Elon anymore, so out of retaliation, I'm canceling all his government contracts," and ~40% of the country doesn't see that as corruption in any way, shape, or form.

This is what a fascist dictatorship looks like. You have a leader who adheres to the persona of a strong man perpetually fighting against enemies who are both too weak and too strong, and at the drop of a hat their enemies change. Then of course rule of law doesn't apply anymore because the strong man in charge is the law, so he is supported in arbitrarily abusing and corrupting the state for his own personal benefit because his personal victories are sold as a show of stength.

The US needs to wake up to the fact that they are now living under a totalitarian dictatorship. The rest of the world is already well aware.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#527
post #24

So, the government would do what, lean on Russia with whom the USA is currently engaged in a proxy war? Also, for Boeing or Blue Origin, the cost would currently be higher per launch, and as far as I know, no one has the kind of satellite network that SpaceX does. Of course, those are sane considerations. I suppose I shouldn’t accuse the Donald of any kind of rational thinking.

> lean on Russia with whom the USA is currently engaged in a proxy war? Are they though? Trump is on Putins side. Who disputes that?

Yes, it's quite disingenuous to say that USA is engaged a proxy war. Ukraine has military support from other countries but they are the ones making decisions at the end of day.

For example Ukraine just carried out a complex drone attack on Russia's bomber fleet, this was careful planned by Ukrainian miliary without any involvement of the US and US was not informed of this ahead of time. And after the fact USA got upset with Ukraine for doing that.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarianism is the umbrella term describing the behaviour of both fascist states and various others. AFAIK all fascist states have been authoritarian - but it’s a common outcome anytime the people running the government are replaced en masse.

The tyranny of the majority is another, often overlooked form of authoritarianism.

Good point, and much harder to challenge. If the majority is against an authoritarian there's protests and sabotage of social structures. If the majority oppresses a fringe group, it's often socially encouraged

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#529

This reads like pretty classic infighting between a dictator and one of his more powerful cronies. I am surprised at how fast it happened, though. Usually this comes towards the end of a dictatorship. Maybe our dear leader is just as incompetent at being a dictator as he is everything else.

> Usually this comes towards the end of a dictatorship. It doesn't seem that way to me, e.g. Putin arrested Khodorkovsky (the richest man in Russia) in 2003. The way I see it, the politician needs the oligarch's money to gain political power, but then he has actual state power, including guns and the judicial system. At that point the oligarch has no purpose -- after all, the politician can just make new ones -- so i…

> He could even try to revoke Musk's citizenship

At the very least, an arrest by ICE is a real possibility. His brother has admitted on camera that they were illegal at one point, and there is now a lot of precedent for "arrest first - ask questions later" even if you're a natural born citizen.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The property of "being a child" in an adult is effectively a matter of ethics and morality

No, it can be justified with rationality alone.

I phrased it poorly:

Being an adult child has moral and ethical consequences.

Behaviours and emotions that are totally legit and tolerated in a child are no longer so in an adult.

An adult that has all the privileges and freedoms of adulthood over childhood, like the ability to vote, drink, drive and hold an office, also has to abide by the moral obligations of being an adult.

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