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Being fat is a trap

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Re: Being fat is a trap

#281

Post by ac29 »

CBLT wrote: post #205
_fat_santa wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we are not the problem, that our volitions are not the problem. Certainly so many people can't be too weak to regulate one of the most basic facets of existence? How did we come all this way as a species if we are so fundamentally flawed at basic metabolic regulation? Certainly so many people shouldn't have to try so hard? Sure, some people succeed,…

A couple of years ago, I was researching modern food science (for unrelated reasons). What really struck me was how focused we are on product longevity. Everything must have low available water in order to survive warehouses, transit, and shelves. Sugar, sodium, oils, and phosphates are all just tools to accomplish this. Put another way, the bag of chips at the American grocery is _designed from concept to factory_ t…

> Put another way, the bag of chips at the American grocery is _designed from concept to factory_ to be unable to support living beings.

This is a weird leap. Yes, there is some degree of modern engineering in packaged food to prevent spoilage but "unable to support living beings" is the wrong conclusion. You're implying the food lacks nutritive value, which is not true.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#282

Post by birksherty »

abirch wrote: post #76
timcobb wrote: post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

I love Dr Jason Fung. His position is that our current system focuses on calories and not eating all the time, not avoiding processed foods, being insulin insensitive, and eating real food. Here's a good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgmFEb0b0TI His hypothesis is that having high levels of insulin is the issue. People need to remember that being insulin resistant and being overweight are chronic conditions.…

In India, most people don't take huge junk food. They still get diabetes because of calorie heavy food and eating all time without letting the stomach get empty even for a minute.

It's the food addiction. People can't stop eating just like alcohol, cigarette or drugs.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#283

Post by ac29 »

dahart wrote: post #192
SonOfLilit wrote: post #35

I have extremely lucky genes and have managed to stay just within the green BMI range despite eating all the carbs and fats you can imagine and at times consuming 200-300g of milk chocolate a day. Some of my friends are obese despite exercising heavily every day. Finding ways you enjoy to keep an active lifestyle is a great idea, probably the highest impact thing you can do for your long term well being (for people i…

> Some of my friends are obese despite exercising heavily every day. I’ve been chubby despite heavy exercise most of my life. It took me at least 30 years to come to what now seems like the dumbest most obvious realization: Exercise makes me strong. Food makes me fat. Now I think of them separately, to a first approximation, as the high order bit. To affect change to my strength, I first need to modify my exercise ha…

As the saying goes, weight is lost in the kitchen.

Exercise is absolutely invaluable for general health but its not effective alone for weight loss for most people.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#284

Post by 4gotunameagain »

flkiwi wrote: post #167
4gotunameagain wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is everyone around you obese ? I bet not. Sure it is more difficult for some people than others, but what would be the alternative ? Ban or regulate fast food ? I want to be able to have a guilty pleasure once in a while, I am careful with what I eat in general. Why should I be deprived of that ?

I've seen statistics that ~64% of my state's residents are obese or significantly overweight. That's a pretty stark number. I honestly don't know how I feel about things like sugary drink bans. Objectively they're part of the problem, but I feel like emphasizing urban rather than suburban development would be a more effective tool. A bit hard to put the genie back in the bottle where I live (the next county over has…

I'm with you on sugary drinks. It is an industrially produced edible drug. I do not know whether banning is the answer, but in my opinion Ultra Processed Food (which is not food, it is edible industrial products) should be clearly marked as such. The way tobacco is marked in the EU.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#285

Post by atmavatar »

Obesity is much like poverty.

Telling someone that losing weight is as simple as calories in money out.

There are environmental, genetic, and cultural influences, and while you can always find a token individual who overcomes them all to become fit/wealthy, there's no denying that they have significant impact on outcomes at a population level.

For example, a tall, attractive person born in the US into a wealthy household who's introduced to other wealthy people throughout their lives and taught how to manage and increase their wealth is going to have it far easier becoming/staying wealthy than an ugly, smaller person born in South Sudan into a poverty-stricken household who's forced to struggle their entire lives.

Similarly, someone born to exceptionally fit parents in a country like Japan with a culture focused more on health is going to be far more likely to be themselves fit than someone born to a family with a history of obesity in a country like the US where it's harder and more expensive to buy and make healthy foods than unhealthy foods.

And yet, in classic US style, just like with wealth, we add a thick layer of moral valuation to being fit so that people can feel better about themselves by viewing and treating anyone less fit than themselves as lesser, evidenced quite strongly throughout these very comments.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#287

Post by sarchertech »

eigenspace wrote: post #236
sarchertech wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the rest of the world is where the US was 20-30 years ago when the US certainly had an “obesity pandemic”. There are 127 countries with an obesity rate higher than 20% (roughly what the US was at 30 years ago). In nearly every country in the world, your ancestors from 30 years ago would call you fat. The US is just ahead of the curve for some reason.

Depending on the coutnry, this is somewhat overstated. For example, here in Europe it's rather clear just by eye (but also borne out in the data) that the increase in obesity here is actually just an increase in age. Older people (up to a point) tend to be plumper than young people. The rapidly increasing average age in Europe then causes an average increase in obesity.

There’s something to that. Obesity rates do peak in middle age (but they drop after that).

But obesity rates don’t correlate well with average country age, and if you look at childhood obesity rates in Europe they have increased dramatically.

Most European countries have childhood obesity rates close to the US childhood obesity rates in the early 90, many are much higher.

The US has also increased in average age quite a bit as well.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#288

Post by xnx »

nradov wrote: post #267
ethbr1 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. If the ad industry put half as much effort into promoting healthy eating, we wouldn't train everyone to eat poorly and/or excessively at a young age. FFS, look at how long it took to get calorie counts on menu signage! And that's the lowest hanging fruit. 1. Fix fast food + the ad industry by financially penalizing pushing unhealthy food. 2. Rework the food supply chain to support healthier eating. (Less ultra-…

It's difficult to drive systematic changes in the food supply chain because there are so many different entities involved, each trying to maximize profit. But we are finally seeing limited positive steps with some states banning junk food purchases with food stamps (SNAP) and the FDA banning some synthetic food dyes. https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-ten-states-changing-rules... https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press…

> the FDA banning some synthetic food dyes.

This feels like a really weird first thing to spend effort on. I don't think it would make a list of the top 100 things to fix in the US food system.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#289

Post by dgfitz »

flkiwi wrote: post #157
dgfitz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that. Maybe set 1 goal a week, or a month even, and then add to them. For example, only drink water. It’s all the body needs for hydration anyways. No soda, diet soda, alcohol, slurpees, etc. Black coffee if you enjoy a cuppa in the morning, no sugar. (Good black coffee is such a joy) Then set a rule about only eating 3 meals a day, however you define meal. No snacks in between. Los…

All good advice, and I follow much of it. I should note that due to addiction issues in my family, I tend not to be an absolutist about these things, nor to stigmatize things (I don't have a 'cheat day' or 'sneak' a treat, for example; sometimes I just want a snack, and that's ok). But there's actually an interesting challenge I've dealt with at points in my career: you say _only_ eating 3 meals per day, but I have s…

I also come from a family with substance issues, alcohol et. al. You can use your imagination.

I focused on the water thing because it is so, so easy to smash a 20oz coke without thinking about it, twice a day even. I’m sure I don’t need to inform you about the nutritional information of coke, but 40oz a day negates any kind of diet or exercise two-fold.

I also made the point about 3 meals completely because of metabolism and the bad effects of eating only once a day. There is however value in skipping breakfast and only eating lunch and dinner, but not if you just make up for breakfast with the other two meals.

The world isn’t black and white, absolutism is never a good thing unless you’re designing digital circuits or some other “there is no other choice but binary” but there already is an exception to your rule.

Keep an open mind. You sound like you’ve talked yourself out of lots of things and seem to have accepted defeat and blamed your circumstances. Coming from the same background as you I would encourage you to at least admit to yourself the things you already know and excuse away. When I finally had that moment it was a game changer.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#290

Post by rich_sasha »

nradov wrote: post #271
timcobb wrote: post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

Do or do not, there is no try. When you frame the issue as a matter of willpower or trying harder then you're already setting yourself up to fail. Everyone that I know who has succeeded in maintaining a healthy body composition has done so through permanent lifestyle changes in which they set up better defaults and positive habits. The daily exercise program then becomes something that they have to do whether they wa…

I think sticking with is is still hard. You can commit to doing hard things and still fail - aka "trying hard".
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