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Being fat is a trap

federicopereiro.com

191–200 of 373 posts

Re: Being fat is a trap

#191
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it is not more fun to go through live believing you have enough mental fortitude only to have context tap you on the shoulder the moment you take that first step. It is also possible to have enough mental fortitude to read beyond the first item in a list that you yourself wrote about an hour ago. Yes, you can’t mental fortitude yourself out of every situation. But you can be committed to change and figure thing…

I'd invite you to point out where I said that we should all expect others to fix our problems, but you won't be able to. I said, and I'm correct, that there is a larger context than simply one's mental approach to a problem that can the problem more difficult to solve than it should be, even when it is an already difficult problem, and, in some cases, makes it impossible. For some, the external context is a less sign…

> Much like fighting climate change, placing all the responsibility on the end user without changing some of the social conditions is a flawed approach, even if there are some things individuals can do to help

Who is changing some of the societal conditions here? You or someone else?

You also started your comment with a list of individual excuses.

You may not have said “4” but you said “2+2” and it’s not that big of a leap to make.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#192

I have extremely lucky genes and have managed to stay just within the green BMI range despite eating all the carbs and fats you can imagine and at times consuming 200-300g of milk chocolate a day. Some of my friends are obese despite exercising heavily every day. Finding ways you enjoy to keep an active lifestyle is a great idea, probably the highest impact thing you can do for your long term well being (for people i…

> Some of my friends are obese despite exercising heavily every day.

I’ve been chubby despite heavy exercise most of my life. It took me at least 30 years to come to what now seems like the dumbest most obvious realization:

Exercise makes me strong. Food makes me fat.

Now I think of them separately, to a first approximation, as the high order bit. To affect change to my strength, I first need to modify my exercise habits, and to affect change to my weight, I fist need to modify my eating habits. Of course I’m not saying you can’t burn calories exercising, but it’s actually been extremely helpful in my weight loss goals to mentally separate exercise from eating. Instead of thinking of exercise as _the_ way to lose weight, I think of diet as the primary tool, and exercise as something that is primarily for strength and activity and only secondarily for weight control.

The reason I’ve been fat despite exercise is, of course, because I naturally compensate for exercise by eating more. For me, I was eating until I feel a certain level of fullness, and that level seems to be slightly too much regardless of how much physical activity I do. Finally realizing that I don’t need to exercise harder, I ‘just’ need to track what I eat, is what finally actually worked. But like the article says, simple is not easy; I air-quoted the ‘just’ in that last sentence because successful food tracking is mentally difficult.

One of the fun side effects of tracking my eating instead of thinking of exercise as the primary weight loss tool is that with respect to food, exercise sort-of reversed it’s function for me, in a way. Instead of thinking of it as my weight loss tool and relying on it to compensate for what I ate, I sometimes use exercise to allow me to eat more when I’m hungry or want a treat. It’s funny, I know I said the same thing two ways, but my mindset changed almost 180 degrees. When I’m in a calorie deficit, I’ve noticed that days I don’t exercise I get more tired and hungry than days I do exercise.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#193
I would argue that being fat is a direct result of capitalism.

The US hesitates to regulate major food corporations because they're core domestic economic drivers and employ millions, which contribute significantly to GDP. Also lobbying.

Europe has more of a middle ground. They have major food companies but stronger traditions of balancing corporate and consumer interests.

Check any major health metric (obesity rates, life expectancy, etc) between the two and there is a clear winner.

THe US food system has clear stratification based on economic access and geographic distribution. Wealthy areas have greater access to fresh, minimally processed foods, while lower-income communities are disproportionately served by retailers offering processed options.

Food industry executives/policymakers often have purchasing patterns that differ significantly from the products their companies produce or the regulations they oversee. This creates a disconnect between decision-makers' lived experiences and the food environment they help shape for the broader population.

The economic incentives favor processed food production due to longer shelf life, lower costs, and higher profit margins. Healthcare costs associated with diet-related diseases are largely socialized through public health systems, while profits from food sales remain private.

Geographic food access varies significantly by income level. You find premium pricing on minimally processed foods which creates economic barriers. The regulatory framework reflects input from industry stakeholders who may have limited personal exposure to the food environments experienced by lower-income consumers.

There are two distinct food ecosystems: one accessible to higher-income consumers with diverse options, and another serving price-sensitive consumers with fewer alternatives. The structural incentives maintain this division through market mechanisms rather than explicit policy design.

You could go on and on...tie in wages, taxes, etc. It all flows back to the all mighty dollar and profit motive regardless of all else. And why shouldn't it? We're in the land of the free, home of the brave! We can do what ever we want because it's out choice! /$

Re: Being fat is a trap

#194
post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

>Certainly so many people can't be too weak to regulate one of the most basic facets of existence? How did we come all this way as a species if we are so fundamentally flawed at basic metabolic regulation?

There have been fundamental shifts in CI and CO. Food went from fundamentally scarce and requiring effort to fairly abundant, and the effort to acquire keeps going down. Over the course of US history we have gone from farmers to factory workers to desk workers. Each of those transitions has lowered "natural" daily CO, as such each one has brought about weight increases.

>"trying harder" is just akin to insanity?

Yes, try smarter. CI/CO is true but I find it to be bad advice because a) it is damn near impossible to measure, and b) straight forward CI/CO changes can lead to opposite results.

What I find works for me:

Cut CI a little bit, large calorie cuts can slow metabolism. Up CO a little bit, exercise boosts metabolism even when not working out. Anerobic is better at boosting metabolism than aerobic.

Food wise, sugar and salt drive the human appetite. Reducing them will help you not feel as hungry while reducing CI. The other is just get used to eating less. Low food days help reorient to smaller meals feeing right. By "low food day" I mean find something small, low sugar, and salt (personally I use unsalted peanuts) when you feel hungry stop and focus on the feeling and try to determine if it is actual hunger or just habit hunger, if it is "real" hunger then eat a handful of peanuts and wait 15min before you reevaluate. The day after eating less will feel normal.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#195
post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

> The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we are not the problem, that our volitions are not the problem. Certainly so many people can't be too weak to regulate one of the most basic facets of existence? How did we come all this way as a species if we are so fundamentally flawed at basic metabolic regulation? Certainly so many people shouldn't have to try so hard? Sure, some people succeed,…

But if you go to the grocery store, enough beans and vegetables to last multiple meals will run you $5...

Re: Being fat is a trap

#196
post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

> The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we are not the problem, that our volitions are not the problem. Certainly so many people can't be too weak to regulate one of the most basic facets of existence? How did we come all this way as a species if we are so fundamentally flawed at basic metabolic regulation? Certainly so many people shouldn't have to try so hard? Sure, some people succeed,…

I’ve heard this before and just don’t get it. Buying healthy food is generally cheaper, or just as expensive in my experience. Buy some vegetables, some chicken, some fruit, eggs. These are generally very affordable, you just have to cook with them.

Sure, buying Just Salad is more expensive than buying McDonald’s, but that’s not the only options.

The bigger problem IMO: we put way more sugar, sweeteners, and addictive substances in food and have big portions where people feel obligated to finish. It’s very easy to eat 100g of sugar every day and hardly notice. Combine that with most American activities involving food and alcohol.

We have a culture that encourages eating and food that responds by being more eatable

Re: Being fat is a trap

#197
post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

> The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we are not the problem, that our volitions are not the problem. Certainly so many people can't be too weak to regulate one of the most basic facets of existence? How did we come all this way as a species if we are so fundamentally flawed at basic metabolic regulation? Certainly so many people shouldn't have to try so hard? Sure, some people succeed,…

>At least in the US where the problem is much worse than in the EU, I would say the major driving factor is the lack of cheap healthy foods.

And portion sizes! There a several factors that lead to such large portions. Americans expect (and now desire, thanks to the ever expanding gut lines) to be stuffed from an ordered meal so producers spend the extra $1 on food costs to ensure larger portions and fewer complaints. We'd complain is the the $9 burger was made into 1/3 sized $3 burgers. Additionally the fixed costs of running a food joint require to low cost and high margin items (like fountain soda) to survive.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> You lack accountability. Accountability for what? To who? And for what purpose? > in 99% of cases, they are the problem, not genetics Where'd you get that number? What are you basing it on? > Your claim that "trying harder" is "akin to insanity" is such an overreaction that it's misleading exaggeration, not worthy of further not worthy of further dissection. What does this even mean? How is my claim an overreaction…

Yeah, I think accountability is a straw man.

If you make it cheaper, easier and more socially acceptable for a group of people to eat low quality processed foods, even a portion of the time (as is the case where I live), that group of people will be more likely to eat processed foods.

It’s not impossible to follow the advice in the in the article, it’s just harder than it should be for some groups of people. Unfairly so, I think.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#199
post #192

I have extremely lucky genes and have managed to stay just within the green BMI range despite eating all the carbs and fats you can imagine and at times consuming 200-300g of milk chocolate a day. Some of my friends are obese despite exercising heavily every day. Finding ways you enjoy to keep an active lifestyle is a great idea, probably the highest impact thing you can do for your long term well being (for people i…

> Some of my friends are obese despite exercising heavily every day. I’ve been chubby despite heavy exercise most of my life. It took me at least 30 years to come to what now seems like the dumbest most obvious realization: Exercise makes me strong. Food makes me fat. Now I think of them separately, to a first approximation, as the high order bit. To affect change to my strength, I first need to modify my exercise ha…

I’ve come to understand “getting in shape” is literally that. Food just gives your body energy and nutrients, how you use your body decides what shape it’ll take (how it directs that energy and nutrients).

Re: Being fat is a trap

#200
post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

[flagged]

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