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Being fat is a trap

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Re: Being fat is a trap

#201

Post by ableal »

amarcheschi wrote: post #63
ThatMedicIsASpy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis made me lose 20kg in a short span (~2 months). But the main reason was extreme loss of appetite. I cooked normal and after 40% of a plate I was full. You do this for a few days and then you start changing your cooking habbits. This was a year ago and I've held the weight since and simply started eating less. My old eating habbits did not make me gain weight though as my old weight was constant for 10 years.…

Tea is a nice alternative to water, and I say this as someone who doesn't like most drinks other than water. There's a huge variety of tastes among green teas, white teas, oolong, black teas... Specific tea variety, different locations where the plants are grown, different manipulations, all concur to a lot of different tastes. However, a lot of people I've met just say it tastes like "earthy/dirty water"

> There's a huge variety of tastes

And a lot of those are not "tea" (with theine/caffeine), they're herb infusions such as mint, hibiscus, chamomile, etc. You can drink as much as you want without getting the typical caffeine buzz.

I particularly like the Morocco Mint & Spices that Lipton sells.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#202

Post by ccorcos »

timcobb wrote: post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

I don’t want to disagree with you but I have a hard time with preaching that people are not be personally responsible for themselves.

I get your point that genes are important and some are blessed while others are not. But regardless what your genes are, you need to find a way to take care of yourself. You are not entitled to someone else taking responsibility for you and your problems.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#203

Post by dahart »

sorcerer-mar wrote: post #84
yetihehe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Losing weight is hard. Maintaining weight is easier, except that you have to do it forever. That second part makes it harder. Losing weight was pretty simple for me, but maintaining that low weight was much harder. Someone said that it takes about half a year to form a habit. I maintained lower weight for about a year, then it came back.

IME the key is a very simple mindset shift. People generally try to ignore or overpower the sensation of hunger. That is super, super difficult over long periods of time. Instead what they should do is very directly and explicitly manage that felt sensation. The key insight is that your sensation of hunger is primarily driven by the weight of your stomach (not the caloric contents or volumetric fullness of it). So th…

This is extremely good advice! In particular, I agree completely the key is to figure out mentally how not to frame the problem as a willpower issue or as overcoming hunger. That is a setup for failure and feelings of shame. Making it about self-control and avoiding temptation is the worst thing you can do.

Yeah I instinctively did the same thing once I finally was able to bring myself to counting calories. Once you have a budget, you want to game the budget to feel full, so it makes veggies start looking a lot more attractive, and things like chocolate easier to avoid.

For me one of the big byproducts of this thinking is that my feeling of fullness was mis-calibrated a little bit. As a result, when I’m full according to my calorie counter, I think about how what I’m feeling is not hunger but the correct level of full. I’m recalibrating what full means to me, and believe it or not it actually helps me to not feel like I’m trying to overcome hunger.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#204

Post by tuesdaynight »

maketheman wrote: post #172
knighthack wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Science disagrees. On an individual level, yes, "try harder" is all we personally can do (well, until GLP-1 agonists, LOL). So, sure, it's "good advice" in that it's all there is. On a policy level? As far as medical intervention efficacy? It's entirely useless. Even crazy-expensive interventions involving several hours of professionals' time per week, for months on end, are wildly less effective than one might think…

It's hard to wrap your head around that when you got fit working out. They will firmly believe that obesity will be solved by people working out and having a stricter diet. I took me years to understand that it's doesn't work for an entire population. Honestly, even if that happened (everybody started working out), people would have a lot of problems with body image, as we can see in teenagers boys nowadays.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#205

Post by CBLT »

_fat_santa wrote: post #183
timcobb wrote: post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

> The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we are not the problem, that our volitions are not the problem. Certainly so many people can't be too weak to regulate one of the most basic facets of existence? How did we come all this way as a species if we are so fundamentally flawed at basic metabolic regulation? Certainly so many people shouldn't have to try so hard? Sure, some people succeed,…

A couple of years ago, I was researching modern food science (for unrelated reasons). What really struck me was how focused we are on product longevity. Everything must have low available water in order to survive warehouses, transit, and shelves. Sugar, sodium, oils, and phosphates are all just tools to accomplish this.

Put another way, the bag of chips at the American grocery is _designed from concept to factory_ to be unable to support living beings. Microorganisms would die from dehydration trying to eat the chips. But due to a bug in human psychology, when we eat them we just feel more hungry. There only regulating feeling we get is guilt.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#206

Post by SonOfLilit »

gruez wrote: post #93
SonOfLilit wrote: post #35

I have extremely lucky genes and have managed to stay just within the green BMI range despite eating all the carbs and fats you can imagine and at times consuming 200-300g of milk chocolate a day. Some of my friends are obese despite exercising heavily every day. Finding ways you enjoy to keep an active lifestyle is a great idea, probably the highest impact thing you can do for your long term well being (for people i…

>I have extremely lucky genes and have managed to stay just within the green BMI range despite eating all the carbs and fats you can imagine and at times consuming 200-300g of milk chocolate a day. >Some of my friends are obese despite exercising heavily every day. An often overlooked factor is how much snacking is done. If you eat "all the carbs and fats", but they're contained to a single meal a few times a week, a…

Oh no I snack all day every day. Can still taste those cashews from a few minutes ago.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#207

Post by tstrimple »

rckt wrote: post #42

The article is basically describing one's addiction to anything. It can be any habit at all. So whether it's a fat trap or any other trap the way out is always the same - willpower. And it comes from the sincere desire for something. I spent overall around 5 years quitting smoking. It was extremely hard, for the most part because of the mental trap. Physically I got rid of the addiction in a couple of weeks. And phys…

> So whether it's a fat trap or any other trap the way out is always the same - willpower.

Which is completely wrong according to science on the topic. Trying to willpower your way out of addictions is a recipe for failure. It's been shown over and over again. People who are aren't addicted don't have more willpower. They have to exercise their willpower far less than someone who struggles with addiction. Identifying and eliminating environmental triggers will do far more for an addict than "willpower" will. Instead of inane advice like "just have more willpower bro" we should be teaching people about environmental triggers and how to structure your life to avoid them without relying on willpower constantly.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#208

Post by philistine »

ccorcos wrote: post #202
timcobb wrote: post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

I don’t want to disagree with you but I have a hard time with preaching that people are not be personally responsible for themselves. I get your point that genes are important and some are blessed while others are not. But regardless what your genes are, you need to find a way to take care of yourself. You are not entitled to someone else taking responsibility for you and your problems.

> you need to find a way to take care of yourself

Here's the crux of the issue; for most people who are fat, finding a way to take care of themselves is so onerous, complex, and difficult that they're not technically stuck, but they're effectively stuck. If you need to drive more than an hour to get access to food that won't be terrible for you, it's not surprising that so many people have a problem.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#209

Post by johnrob »

timcobb wrote: post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

Societal norms are the problem. We’ve normalized unhealthy food. Big business has figured hit that if they make processed/refined foods easily accessible, you will buy them. Nobody wins here except shareholders, and only those shareholders in good health who don’t have to compete to get access from doctors who are overbooked with patients who have manifested a chronic illness that is statistically correlated with the aforementioned food.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#210

Post by modo_mario »

Zealotux wrote: post #75
SonOfLilit wrote: post #35

I have extremely lucky genes and have managed to stay just within the green BMI range despite eating all the carbs and fats you can imagine and at times consuming 200-300g of milk chocolate a day. Some of my friends are obese despite exercising heavily every day. Finding ways you enjoy to keep an active lifestyle is a great idea, probably the highest impact thing you can do for your long term well being (for people i…

>Some of my friends are obese despite exercising heavily every day. Exercise -- even heavily -- will never compensate a bad diet; that focus we have on exercise as weight control is detrimental.

I think focusing on anything solely is detrimental but focusing on exercise as an aspect is good.

- eat a bit less food

- eat food that is higher on the satiety index

- eat food that has less easily absorbed calories/less processed/etc

- build muscle to raise your resting metabolic rate slightly

- sleep well

etc

I think a bit of everything with mostly a focus on less calories will be easier to adopt than just telling people to track calories into perpetuity and feel like they're starving for a good while.

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