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Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

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Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#61

Post by jack-r-abbit »

tonycoco wrote: post #57
tonycoco wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a privilege to fly? Not a right. It's not like an airplane is some public government arena. It's the property of the airlines, just so happens that you have to be cleared by the government to fly. Don't they have the right to refuse service to a customer, especially if that customer is making employees and other customers uneasy. I'm sure if you went into a McDonald's and were wearing some suspicious clothin…

No, but what about a "Bombs in McDonalds are cool." t-shirt? Context. Context. That is all.

Huh? His shirt didn't say anything remotely like "bombs on the airplane are cool"... anymore than his second shirt said "I'm going to poop on this plane's drink cart".

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#62

Post by mindslight »

tonycoco wrote: post #54
grecy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest. Free Speech (but only when we say so)

Isn't it a privilege to fly? Not a right. It's not like an airplane is some public government arena. It's the property of the airlines, just so happens that you have to be cleared by the government to fly. Don't they have the right to refuse service to a customer, especially if that customer is making employees and other customers uneasy. I'm sure if you went into a McDonald's and were wearing some suspicious clothin…

As air travel has matured into infrastructure that is generally depended upon, flying has become a right. Especially a return trip. Failure to see this is a deficiency with the narrow "base primitive" view of rights.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#63

Post by myko »

thelucky41 wrote: post #39
Bud wrote: post #3

I don't see why pilots need to have the power to boot passengers. At all. That's why TSA supposedly exists. Racist objections from passengers should not be able to lead to other passengers getting booted from flights.

I am a pilot (not an airline pilot). It is absolutely mandatory for the pilot-in-command to have complete discretion when dealing with passengers on their aircraft. While I may have let this man board my own plane, this pilot-in-command used his own judgement to determine that the passenger presented too large a risk to the safety and comfort of other passengers. It is completely within his duties to do that. It is a…

> It is also completely within Delta's duties as his employer to question his judgement and fire him for being a racist later.

Seems like the only reasonable response.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#64

Post by cecilpl »

ghshephard wrote: post #2

While, I understand on principle why he thinks he should be allowed to fly wearing any political statement he wishes - it's the kind of principle I had when I was less than 30. Nowadays, I completely understand and appreciate why passengers don't want to fly on a plane with someone who was wearing a shirt that had the phrases, "Moisture BOMBS", "Terrorists gonna kill us all", "Alert Level Blood Red." At a certain poi…

When I was 20 I had a pen in my pocket and it leaked all over my pants on a flight.

On the way back home, I was going through airport security and had another pen in my pocked. I picked it up from the tray, turned to my friend behind me, and without thinking said in a fairly loud voice, "I wonder if this one will explode on the plane".

Dead silence as every eye in the room turns to this young kid holding up a pen. I just stammered out an apology as my face went bright red and I shoved it back in my pocket.

I can't actually believe they let me on the plane.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#65

Post by mindslight »

tonycoco wrote: post #60
mindslight wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While agreeing with that, Delta should still be held responsible for getting him to his destination on a reasonable schedule, the costs of his accommodations, and his and his wife's wasted time.

If Delta should be reasonable (getting him accommodations) shouldn't he also be reasonable next time he gets on one of their planes?

Logical inference does not work the way you'd like.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#66

Post by robotresearcher »

grecy wrote: post #40
anigbrowl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism is one possibility, but so is anxiety about the guy's shirt and his attitude. Not very rational, but a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest. A snotty disregard for the concerns of others tends to make them unsympathetic to your point of view. As for why pilots have the power to boot people, it's because they're responsible for the safety and happiness of the passengers duri…

> a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest. Free Speech (but only when we say so)

The right to free speech is rule that restricts the power of the government only. It has nothing to do with companies or individuals. Just as I can ask you to leave my home if you insult my mother, a company can refuse you access to their airplane if they don't like your T-shirt. That's their business decision.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#67

Post by dhimes »

readymade wrote: post #58
dhimes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with that. It's like wearing a t-shirt saying "rape is underrated" to a home for battered women. It's thoughtless and selfish and not funny. And for reasons I stated elsewhere, the pilot made the right call, especially from a business perspective.

A shirt mocking the TSA doesn't come close to that analogy, even if you consider it bad taste, since it doesn't legitimize, condone or make light of terrorism. If it said "Terrorism rules!", then perhaps you'd have a point, although it's still a stupid reason to put him through what they did, especially considering his ordeal did not end with agreeing to change his clothes.

You have a point about the analogy I struck- it's not the one I intended. My analogy was intended as the thoughtless act of wearing the shirt, not the relationship of what the shirt condoned.

Once the other passengers are upset, it's the pilot's call. Same will happen on a boat or a bus. If you upset the other passengers you get to find some other means of getting where you are going.

The pilot made the right call. It sounds like he was only kicked off of one flight. That's fair.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#68

Post by jack-r-abbit »

awj wrote: post #49
saraid216 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if that shirt represents the attitude he held in the whole encounter, it's no surprise things went to shit. It's not surprising, but it's also not right. Cops who don't know how to deal with an antagonistic attitude aren't really useful anywhere that deals directly with the public.

I agree, they aren't. But here we're talking about TSA agents (who more or less acted appropriately, in my opinion) and Delta employees. I expect neither of these to perform well when balancing public safety against antagonistic attitudes. Especially the Delta employees.

> we're talking about TSA agents (who more or less acted appropriately, in my opinion)

yes... the TSA acted appropriately because they were the only ones that ignored his attire (poking fun at the TSA even) and focused on checking that he had absolutely nothing on his person or in his luggage that would be a threat. It was the Airport Police and Delta Agents... both of which should be well trained in dealing with the volatile public since their jobs often involve dealing with the volatile public.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#69

Post by wilzan »

anigbrowl wrote: post #13
Bud wrote: post #3

I don't see why pilots need to have the power to boot passengers. At all. That's why TSA supposedly exists. Racist objections from passengers should not be able to lead to other passengers getting booted from flights.

Racism is one possibility, but so is anxiety about the guy's shirt and his attitude. Not very rational, but a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest. A snotty disregard for the concerns of others tends to make them unsympathetic to your point of view. As for why pilots have the power to boot people, it's because they're responsible for the safety and happiness of the passengers duri…

He changed his shirt and they still wouldn't let him on.

Re: Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt

#70

Post by robotresearcher »

mindslight wrote: post #62
tonycoco wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a privilege to fly? Not a right. It's not like an airplane is some public government arena. It's the property of the airlines, just so happens that you have to be cleared by the government to fly. Don't they have the right to refuse service to a customer, especially if that customer is making employees and other customers uneasy. I'm sure if you went into a McDonald's and were wearing some suspicious clothin…

As air travel has matured into infrastructure that is generally depended upon, flying has become a right. Especially a return trip. Failure to see this is a deficiency with the narrow "base primitive" view of rights.

Should airline travel be available to all, irrespective of their ability to pay? If not, then it can't be a right, since rights can not be denied based on ability to pay.
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