Live data from Hacker News

What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

brooklynhacker.com

11–20 of 69 posts

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#11
I come from a marketing background, and I have to say that sometimes the negative view of marketers is completely deserved. All it takes is some kid in business school to watch The Social Network and decide he needs a "code monkey" to build his awesome idea. He becomes the "idea" guy, tries to find someone to give 10% equity to build everything, and gets ready to snort cocaine in Palo Alto.

But if you've ever worked with a truly talented marketer, it's an incredible experience. The way they can take something, craft the messaging to it's JUST RIGHT and find the proper channels to market on - it's a beautiful thing. But for someone who doesn't come from a marketing background, it's very hard to discern.

I'm sure there are really bad hackers (or do we still call them "hackers?"), but if you're a marketer it's hard to tell the difference.

Generally disrespect comes from a lack of willingness to understand what actually happens on the other side. I think it should be mandatory for every marketer to learn how to code - even if it's some basic HTML/CSS/JavaScript. Hackers should all have to try and acquire customers, and see that it's not all sending out a couple of tweets or emailing a TechCrunch columnist. Whether you consider the other side a "code monkey" or a "non-technical idiot," you're in big trouble. It takes two hands to clap, and both are immensely difficult to accomplish.

You have to specialize, but you also have to understand.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are hiring! http://www.jobscore.com/jobs/twilio/list

You're right! I actually checked before submitting that comment, I should have said, "I wish you guys were hiring IN CHICAGO."

If you're interested in Developer Evangelism in Chicago, email me. We make it there but not nearly often enough.

I'm Austin based.. and it's way better than SF. ;)

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#13
I cannot stress how useful this is. When I came to the SF Bay Area I was working for Intel, but I too felt that some day I wanted to run my own company. My job at Intel was an engineering job but I spent all day interacting with the marketing group and the design engineers as a liason. I realized I had some built in assumptions about how 'easy' marketing was and I didn't even know what they did.

When I was recruited into Sun I had a choice to either take a job offered by Marketing (Carol Bartz was my boss' boss :-) or the kernel group. I chose Marketing because I really wanted to learn that skill. It was a hugely valuable choice. After 18 months I decided at my heart I was an engineer and switched over to the systems group, but having that knowledge gave me a new found respect for what marketing folks have to do, day in and day out.

That in turn let me recognize the difference between good marketers and mediocre ones, and to understand what they needed from engineering to communicate to future customers.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#14
I was a bit hesitant to click the link, but I'm glad I did.

"As it turns out, the ones who do it well are rare and far less visible because - like good programmers - their work is a lot harder to notice."

This sums my experience perfectly. It takes a long time to be able to understand who is good at something and who is not.

Pardon my language but many marketers are charlatans. When I first started in marketing I thought the charlatans were the ones who were good (incompetent people [me at that time] are the least competent at recognizing those who are good). Now, after a decade at it I can firmly agree with the statement above and I think it bodes very well for the author.

I believe the 2nd point is the most important to understand when trying to get good at marketing. The rest is ancillary to doing a great job, but having the data is essential to knowing what to do.

I believe great marketers are like methodical scientists. They can put aside their own biases and test their hypothesis and analyze the data. Beyond that, they can look at the data in front of them, identify what they need to know more about, and discover things they did not expect. Through this they can affect change that improves the entire organization.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#15
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a culture thing. There are good marketers and there are terrible marketers. In programming, there is a culture of calling people out for their bullshit. In most other business cultures, it's a bit less belligerent.

"In programming, there is a culture of calling people out for their bullshit. In most other business cultures, it's a bit less belligerent." Marketing can be every bit as confrontational, but it's usually more passive aggressive. You'll rarely get called out in a meeting, but you'll get outmaneuvered or back-channeled after the meeting is over. The field is incredibly political. When I worked in marketing, I felt lik…

>When I worked in marketing, I felt like I was a character in "Game of Thrones." The constant alliances, shifts, backstabbings, feints, etc., were exhausting.

This sounds fucking awful.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#16

I was a bit hesitant to click the link, but I'm glad I did. "As it turns out, the ones who do it well are rare and far less visible because - like good programmers - their work is a lot harder to notice." This sums my experience perfectly. It takes a long time to be able to understand who is good at something and who is not. Pardon my language but many marketers are charlatans. When I first started in marketing I tho…

"I believe great marketers are like methodical scientists. They can put aside their own biases and test their hypothesis and analyze the data. Beyond that, they can look at the data in front of them, identify what they need to know more about, and discover things they did not expect. Through this they can affect change that improves the entire organization."

GREAT quote. Bravo. Way to put into words what I struggle to say. Thanks.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right! I actually checked before submitting that comment, I should have said, "I wish you guys were hiring IN CHICAGO."

If you're interested in Developer Evangelism in Chicago, email me. We make it there but not nearly often enough. I'm Austin based.. and it's way better than SF. ;)

Austin is a town I want to live in some day! I'm emailing you now.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#18

That was a great little read. Whenever I try to explain to my developer friends why my job is important, I'm usually shrugged off rudely. This guy gets it, experience is the only way to learn WHY marketing is so essential. My humble request to developers: Stop being dismissive of marketers, they are an essential part of the equation.

I think it goes back to what Rob highlights in the post.. the bad marketing is what sticks out. When we think of marketing, we think of booth babes, commercials with bad actors saying awkward things, and airheads who don't understand their business or product. The best "sales" guy I ever met was a guy who just stopped and listened. He would ask a few questions, work to understand the underlying problems, and if he co…

When we think of marketing, we think of booth babes, commercials with bad actors saying awkward things, and airheads who don't understand their business or product.

That's covered under points 1 and 2 in the article. I found GoDaddy's "informational" videos to be even worse than the ads (at least the ads were just driving traffic, but the videos were incredibly condescending and treated the models as furniture). But I know that those were A/B tested with a lot of variations, and conversion is highest with "booth babes" and saying awkward things.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#19
I can absolutely attest to this. Rob came to a hackathon I participated in a few months ago at the University of Miami. He did a great job and really made Twilio seem totally awesome. He was great to work with and really pushed my team to reach above our potential.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#20
Good stuff. I guess, as hackers go, I was always a little weird, in that I always found marketing fascinating. But over the past year or so (and especially the past 6 months) I've been diving into marketing big time, studying as much marketing (and, to a lesser extent, sales) material as I can, and starting to do things like putting together a tentative marketing plan for our startup.

Wow. The OP is right, this stuff is NOT easy. Here's one for you... a guy named Chet Holmes, who is a fairly well known marketing guru (and who unfortunately passed away recently, R.I.P.) spoke a lot about "core stories" and how "market data trumps product data," and suggests that the "story" you tell about your product be informed by data about the market of the people you're selling too. So, if you're selling software to,say, bolt & screw manufacturers in the Southeast, you need to know what's going on with bolt & screw manufacturers in the Southeast, what the trends are, what problems they face, and how to talk to them in terms that relate to their problems first and foremost, and NOT your product first and foremost.

So, here's your homework... go out and start researching bolt and screw manufacturing in the Southeast, identify some meaningful trends and patterns, come up with hard numbers, economic issues, etc., and then find a way to use that to use that to tie your product to a problem those guys are having. And now write up a compelling educational brief for that market, which tells a good story, and educates, while contributing to demand for what you do.

Now come up with a great headline for your story that will capture someone's interest.

Now figure out how to get it in front of the people that need to see it.

Now call them and try to get a meeting so you can talk to them in person about the issues at hand.

Now do this for each identifiable target market you're pursuing (note: I'm referring mainly to B2B scenarios here, since that's what we do).

But wait, there's more... you also need to think about your "ultimate strategic position" and how all of your messaging contributes to that positioning, and about how to achieve "top of mind awareness" among your audience. And for extra giggles, coordinate PR campaigns, manage events, do market research which is more "product focused," etc., etc., etc.

Nah, this stuff is definitely not easy. It's hard in a way that's different from hacking (which is what makes it fun, to be honest), but hard nonetheless. I really have a newfound respect for the really good marketing people out there, and it's growing as I learn more about what marketing entails. Hint: It's not just throwing a few Google Adwords out there and waiting for the money to roll in (well, not for most of us, anyway).

(aside: I'm taking a very broad view of marketing here. I see marketing as a strategic component, which entails selecting the ideal customer segments, driving product decisions, receiving input/feedback from customers, determining the vision the company wants to communicate to the market, and communicating that to the market... as well as the tactical elements such as "create brochure," "create whitepaper," "create screencast," "organize PR campaign," "do focus group," "take pizza and t-shirts to hackathon," etc.)

Post reply on HN