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The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

ericneyman.wordpress.com

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Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#491

This article fails to address that most true believers would not see any point to betting on the yes. If Christ returns this year, the world is done and there is no upside to having bet that he would. Temporal things (like prediction markets) will cease to be interesting when Christ returns. Given that, I highly doubt that the people betting yes actually believe that Christ will return this year.

Hypothetically, its an expensive commitment that proves one's faith. Anyone can say jesus is coming, but less people are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

The upside isn't the important part - the downside is. It proves that you really believe what you say.

This happens all the time with countries when they are negotiating. E.g. Russia is pretty unimpressed when countries say they are going to give ukraine weapons unless there is a ceasefire. Its all cheap talk. If one of the countries bought the weapons first (that they otherwise would not of) and then threatens to give them to ukraine, its much more credible since they have sunk money into it.

Or you could look at the animal kingdom with energy expensive mating rituals. The point is to waste resources in order to prove your commitment.

Examples of this sort of thing show up all over the world.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#493
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind true believers often learn to live with a massive cognitive dissonance This is quite true. Taking away just the moral teachings is not true belief. Revelations is serious business stuff, the apostles watched Christ ascend from Mount Olive, it’s extremely trippy things. True believers are literally believing in wild shit. In fact, if you are true believer, you almost need to keep it hidden because it’s go…

I like Feynman's take that "I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose which is the way it really is as far as I can tell" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1RqTP5Unr4 The true believers in Christianity have to know , their world view is hinged on knowing that there is a god, that the world was created in 7 days, and that the earth is only 6,000 y…

The Catholic Church does not hold Young Earth Creationism as dogma nor does it hold that the seven days in Genesis were literal days.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#494

[flagged]

I presume your experience is limited to the parochial world of American Evangelical Christianity, or perhaps anecdotal, informed by your experience with intellectually unsophisticated people. Dawkins and his ilk used to love to pick on these poor people, because it’s so easy, even for a philosophical and theological rube like Dawkins. But you are certainly not describing the intellectual muscle and heft of the Cathol…

There is no dissonance in Catholic faith / philosophy? No hoop jumping to explain why Biblical claims don't match the lived experience of most people?

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#495
post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle to see how believing in a religion would improve on this that's not what i am asking. if you believe that religions are "wrong", then it's on you to verify that. what evidence shows this, and if there is no evidence, why should I believe it i can't tell you that. you need to look at each religion yourself and decide. as i asked in another comment, have you looked at all the major religions (as listed on eg…

The burden of proof is on the claimant. If you want to convince me to change my beliefs, you should provide a compelling argument. If you believe that religions are ‘right’ and/or have better answers than the scientific tradition, it should be trivial to defend your claims. (Your other comment [ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44130369 ] is more agreeable.)

first of all, i am not making the claim that religions are ‘right’ and/or have better answers. i am making the argument that if you want to find out if they are giving better answers or any answers for that matter, then you need to research them.

i can tell you what i believe but i am not here to represent any particular religion, and i can't speak for all the religions. you will get better results and answers if you look at each religion yourself, and come to your own conclusion.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#496
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

free will is one big reason why god would not reveal himself in a universal fashion. free will includes the freedom to reject god. if god were to reveal himself openly then the freedom to reject him would not exist. we would not have a choice but to believe.

>free will is one big reason why god would not reveal himself in a universal fashion. Much like how religion posits a soul, you are positing free will despise observing that rocks always fall in accordance with the laws of physics and we have yet to determine any normal way of altering the course of chemistry one jot or tiddle(in fact we build our edifices on these observations, so confident are we). You yourself sug…

This is a bit of a bizarre argument.

> you are positing free will despise observing that rocks always fall in accordance with the laws of physics and we have yet to determine any normal way of altering the course of chemistry one jot or tiddle(in fact we build our edifices on these observations, so confident are we)

Physics (quantum physics specificly) posits a non-deterministic universe.

However even with a deterministic universe, i don't see how it neccesatates removing free will. Perhaps you (your soul or whatever) can choose whatever you want to, you just always have to make the same choice given the same input. Maybe you dont literally have free will in what you immediately do, but you have free will in defining what type of person you are, which informs what you will do in response to some input.

[Im an atheist if that matters]

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMO, you are also an elitist jerk by telling non-believers that they will be going to hell for not believing your religion, a religion which 69% of the entire world does not believe. Catholics don't believe that you have to be Catholic to go to heaven. In fact, believing that you do is explicitly condemned as a heresy (Feeneyism).

Interesting! So in Catholicism, what are the belief requirements? Would that mean that some Protestants could go to heaven even if they've never had (Catholic) communion? (Genuine question)

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-there-re...

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#498
post #485
post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i expects everyone who questions any religion to do that search. whether they believe in god or not. if you question something, then it is on you to go find answers. even if you found your belief system that works for you. maybe especially if you found one you should always keep your eyes open and investigate your own beliefs, and not just blindly accept it.

This is still kind of backwards. The person who doesn’t accept something blindly has no obligation to question anything. There is no obligation to obtain a belief system. Someone who is agnostic is not blindly accepting anything.

The person who doesn’t accept something blindly has no obligation to question anything

not accepting something blindly IS the same as questioning something. or reverse, if you do not question your beliefs then you are accepting them blindly.

There is no obligation to obtain a belief system

i didn't say there is, except maybe that rejecting all belief systems is also a kind of belief.

Someone who is agnostic is not blindly accepting anything.

again, i didn't intend to make that claim. if anything that was more targeted at those who do follow a particular religion and stopped asking questions.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#499

[flagged]

I presume your experience is limited to the parochial world of American Evangelical Christianity, or perhaps anecdotal, informed by your experience with intellectually unsophisticated people. Dawkins and his ilk used to love to pick on these poor people, because it’s so easy, even for a philosophical and theological rube like Dawkins. But you are certainly not describing the intellectual muscle and heft of the Cathol…

I'm genuinely curious. What would that be?

Judging by their creeds it's believing that Easter really happened, and that the highest being is a composition that must be explained in hard to understand greek ontological terms.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#500
post #160
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think anything is weird anymore. The ultimate reality of free will is that you will always have the option to do right and wrong. If you don’t have faith, this privilege will be difficult. The human left to their own devices will always have a shifting sense of morality (turning a ship by 1 degree at a time). Faith was a gift to help. In terms of Christ, let me put it this way. Imagine your high school, and o…

free will is one big reason why god would not reveal himself in a universal fashion. free will includes the freedom to reject god. if god were to reveal himself openly then the freedom to reject him would not exist. we would not have a choice but to believe.

This contradicts the most common view of Christians throughout history, especially since the simplest reading of Romans 1 expresses exactly the opposite view: "Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."
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