Earlier quoted context omitted.
Now, if you wanted to argue that the rape charges look strange, because those charges were dismissed at first, both victims do not want to prosecute further, the accussed is kind of a target, so on... well, OK. But your argument here amazes me. Why is it suspicious at all for the Interpol to hunt for a possible rapist? It does for thieves, kidnappers and so on. And it should. I would be surprised and enraged if the I…
It does for thieves, kidnappers and so on. I think this is the heart of the matter. A couple of months ago my wife's car was robbed. The police did nothing but document the theft for insurance purposes, making no effort to identify or apprehend the criminal. I've no doubt that if my wife was assaulted, they would have made some actual efforts; and had she been killed or raped, they'd have made it a priority. It must…
Legal myths about the Assange extradition
161–170 of 187 posts
Re: Legal myths about the Assange extradition
#162I really thought the HackerNews readership was better than this, but a great majority of the comments here have people getting into full-on conspiracy mode in ignorance of basic facts that have been presented. I know these folks don't necessarily represent HN as a whole, but doesn't the HN community pride itself on valuing measured factually based responses over uninformed emotional ones? I'm sure this will get downv…
Moreover, why is this article here at all? I appreciated it, but I've also flagged the submission. It has nothing to do with hacking or startups or technology. There are many other, more appropriate sites for discussing politics, crime, and current events.
I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with technology. I think (and the amount of comments on this story seems to support that) - many HN readers are interested in information transparency and possible clandestine agendas to against openness.
If there turns out that (any number of) intelligence services have a hand in this -- I should think that would have implications for hackers everywhere.
Even if most of HN is about legitimate start-ups and projects that in the end are not very disruptive -- I'd say that many readers would be interested in what it takes to come under the very real thumb of the various arms of eg. the US government.
But I agree that if this was about someone like Sklyarov[1] it would be a better fit.
Re: Legal myths about the Assange extradition
#163Ok, I'm from sweden, and I'm a supporter of wiki-leaks, this is my perspective on this: Why do everyone seem to become a tin-foil hat when it comes to Assange? Prosecuting Assange for rape in Sweden has nothing to do with prosecuting him for espionage in America. Sure, there are people trying to boost their careers by this case, being the one to convict Assange for a crime like this might be a great way to speed up y…
The problem is that it's just a little too convenient. He's suddenly wanted in the US for the Wikileaks piece, and right afterwards he's wanted in Sweden. The prosecutor drops the case, but then it's picked back up with an arrest warrant. Suddenly Interpol is brought into the mix for what really isn't typically an Interpol matter. That's a lot of money and time spent across international borders for an allegation wit…
Except for the first prosecutor that handled the case (bearing in mind that Sweden has a remarkably poor record when it comes to prosecuting sexual violence).
Re: Legal myths about the Assange extradition
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
> everyone has a certain picture of it in their mind. Which is impossibly irrelevant. > consentual sex, supposedly started without a condom (contrary to agreement) If it's contrary to agreement in whole or in part, it's not consensual. > after the women agreed. Or she acquiesced. (EDIT: as in, surrendered resistance)
If it's contrary to agreement in whole or in part, it's not consensual. That's quite a statement to make as if it's universal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception >The crime—known in Tennessee and California as rape by fraud[1]—is only recognised in few jurisdictions; in all others the definition of rape actually involves lack of consent at the time of intercourse. Even if they agreed to sex based on lies,…
I wasn't speaking about the law, I was speaking about moral behavior. Consent which is anything less than enthusiastic should be frowned upon, at the very least, by all of us.
Re: Legal myths about the Assange extradition
#165On the I.Q.Org website, wasn't it Assange who said that he is someone who moves in spy circles? I wonder what happens to spies who are either doing their jobs correctly or become rogue? Manning/ Lamo chat logs also refer to Assange as having a level in the intelligence field. But legal case never mentions it.
Re: Legal myths about the Assange extradition
#166Ok, I'm from sweden, and I'm a supporter of wiki-leaks, this is my perspective on this: Why do everyone seem to become a tin-foil hat when it comes to Assange? Prosecuting Assange for rape in Sweden has nothing to do with prosecuting him for espionage in America. Sure, there are people trying to boost their careers by this case, being the one to convict Assange for a crime like this might be a great way to speed up y…
Personally I think it is more likely that intelligence services had a hand in either a) setting the stage for the rape (ie: one or both the girls were intelligence assets), or b) pushing for prosecution (IMNHO more likely).
Motives for both a) and b) would probably be to discredit Assange, as well as (with arrest, the strain of a trial, and the presumed following incarceration in a perfectly normal Swedish prison) making Assange unable to contribute effectively to Wikileaks.
Damage to the reputation of Assange, as well as limiting his ability to move around would presumably also hurt fund raising campaigns.
There have been documented cases of similar (and much, much worse) by eg. the CIA and the FBI[1,2] -- I don't think exploring the possibility is crazy.
Saying it absolutely is so, without any proof, is crazy, however.
[1] http://articles.latimes.com/2006/aug/18/opinion/oe-schou18 (Extra irony points for link to LA Times story on Webb?) [2] http://cironline.org/reports/man-who-armed-black-panthers-wa...
Re: Legal myths about the Assange extradition
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
But then the question becomes: why would he be more vulnerable in Sweden than in the UK? The linked article argues that he is more vulnerable to extradition to the US in the UK. I buy that argument. What is your argument that he would be more vulnerable in Sweden?
Sweden is a huge country with very low population density and one of its neighbors is Russia, a formidable military power. This means it is very dependent on the US for its security, and more likely to be vulnerable to explicit or implicit pressure from the US than an island nation of 60 million people that is also a nuclear power. I'm convinced this is also the case with Australia, which is why they're so unwilling…
They don't actually share a border with Russia, were never part of Russia or the USSR and are part of the EU. There's zero chance of the Russians invading.
Re: Legal myths about the Assange extradition
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Moreover, why is this article here at all? I appreciated it, but I've also flagged the submission. It has nothing to do with hacking or startups or technology. There are many other, more appropriate sites for discussing politics, crime, and current events.
I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with technology. I think (and the amount of comments on this story seems to support that) - many HN readers are interested in information transparency and possible clandestine agendas to against openness. If there turns out that (any number of) intelligence services have a hand in this -- I should think that would have implications for hackers everywhere. Even if most of HN is abou…
I think we should try to stick to the guidelines [1] even if there are off-topic stories that may get lots of comments and votes. My reasoning is there are many good sites on the Internet dedicated to politics and current events, but surprisingly few good discussion forums for tech startups.
This story is really only tangentially related to information transparency; the text is entirely about international politics and the law. It has nothing to do with technology.
Re: Legal myths about the Assange extradition
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
I got this far: Another interesting tidbit is that Assange is only sought by Sweden for questioning and has not been formally charged. ... and stopped reading. Assange is wanted for arrest --- it's an EAW we're discussing, after all --- and can't normally charge him until they have done so. There are lots of great comments on Reddit, for whatever it's worth.
> it's an EAW we're discussing, after all --- and can't normally charge him until they have done so. You keep repeating this, and people keep demonstrating that it is untrue. Edit: And just to be clear, you believe you know more about this than a constitutional law prof from the EU (the author of the reddit comment), correct?
Except that it is true. The reddit citations are simply the reddit poster's poor understanding of the facts, which do not reflect reality.
Lesson to learn here: do not cite reddit as a factual source.
Re: Legal myths about the Assange extradition
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ecuador is trying (a) to piss off the US and (b) to rally political support within Ecuador based on a phony issue, so as to avoid attention to Ecuador's very real problems with repression. The idea that Ecuador (of all countries) would be taking a principaled stand against repression is actually the one that beggars belief, based on the recent history of the Correa administration.
That's an interesting piece of information I wasn't aware of. Wish the news media was smart enough to dig into things to uncover stuff like this.
They do. From the first NYT article I found when I searched for "Assange" on their site, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/world/europe/twists-in-jul...:
Some observers also expressed surprise that Mr. Assange, who shot to fame as a fighter for transparency and press freedom, had chosen Ecuador as a potential refuge. He and the country’s president, Rafael Correa, shared warm laughter and a disdain for the United States government in an interview Mr. Assange conducted for his talk show recently on the Kremlin-funded Russia Today network . But Mr. Correa has presided over a crackdown on journalists in Ecuador, according to several reports.
In February, the publisher of the Ecuadorean newspaper El Universo took refuge in the Panamanian Embassy in Quito, and was granted asylum, after the newspaper was ordered to pay $40 million and he was sentenced to three years in prison for defaming Mr. Correa.
The court’s decision was “a serious attack on freedom of the press and gagging of independent journalism,” the Miami-based Inter American Press Association told Agence France-Presse at the time. It criticized “a judicial and legal structure that is used to make reprisals against those who dissent from official policy.”