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CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

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Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#121

Post by nothrabannosir »

layer8 wrote: post #106
kevincox wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the whole business of scalpers is exploiting the difference between the list price and the price people are willing to pay. If this gap didn't exist scalping wouldn't be profitable. (As far as this article as discussing. They also serve some use for reselling tickets when you meant to go but can't but this doesn't have any more downsides)

Yes, but what do you think is the reason why they are not doing what you argue they should do?

Because there is a perverse incentive for performers to lean into scalping: selling out quickly is a mark of success. NPR's "Planet Money" had an episode a while back that covered exactly this.

Not all artists lean into it of course, and it's usually not the actual artists anyway but labels, producers, etc.

In that same episode they covered how LiveNation owns both TicketMaster and many venues themselves, and leverage access to the venues for power in the ticketing market.

It may have been this one but I'm not 100%: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/06/25/195641030/epis...

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#122

Post by cladopa »

mschuster91 wrote: post #63

The solution is, as always, simple: regulation. In this case: - break up Ticketmaster, Live Nation and their European friends. Ban vertical integration. And for good measure (and to placate the public who is out for blood, and I mean that one in the literal sense - ask a random on the street about what they'd do to scalpers and TM, I'd bet good money on at least 50% going for one or another form of violence), place t…

>I'd bet good money on at least 50% going for one or another form of violence), place their execs behind bars for a decade.

Why not send them to the firing squad? Or torturing them?

Some people have sociopathic tendencies. If your problem is scrappers making money the solution could not be creating a bigger problem like sending people to jail for a decade.

Comming recently from visiting Ukraine I can't help thinking how insignificant those pet problems are, while real crimes like kids being killed go impune every day... If the price of something is too high, just don't go there. It is not the end of the world.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#123

Post by akrymski »

RainyDayTmrw wrote: post #113
akrymski wrote: post #103

Could someone explain why tickets aren't sold via an auction mechanism? Surely that's the only fair way to distribute anything of limited supply

That's only "fair" in a certain, academic sense, which claims that willingness to pay more money makes someone more "deserving" - completely ignoring socioeconomic status. That also offends a lot of people who oppose the above reasoning.

It's "fair" in any society that has capitalism. Going down the rabbit hole of deciding who deserves money is playing God.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#124

Post by jmalicki »

kassner wrote: post #119

I can’t claim I’m the first one to think about this, but every time Ticketmaster shows up on HN I keep coming back to this idea: Sell the tickets with regressive price based on time. Sales starts say 2 months before event, initial price is truly exorbitant, say one million dollars. Price decreases linearly down to zero (or true cost price). At any point, people can see current price and the seats left. Now every pote…

This is a similar idea to a second price auction, but in reverse.

Everyone puts in their maximum price they're willing to pay, and the lowest price that fills the seats is what people pay.

The advantage to this model is that there is no financial risk to overpaying.

Of course with an open bid continuous auction there are problems with bid shading (manipulating the auction by posting prices mostly meant to influence other bidders), but it's overall economically very close to your idea.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#126

Post by akrymski »

cptroot wrote: post #107
akrymski wrote: post #103

Could someone explain why tickets aren't sold via an auction mechanism? Surely that's the only fair way to distribute anything of limited supply

The answer is mentioned in the article. Not all concerts want only people with means to attend. The venue might want to be accessible to low-income members of the community, or it might be a benefit concert, with free tickets and a donation drive.

What's wrong with giving out some free tickets to low income members of the community?

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#127

Post by threeseed »

markasoftware wrote: post #37
teeray wrote: post #33

> The naive economic solution to the problem would be raising ticket prices step by step until it is no longer attractive for scalpers to resell your ticket You can also just do like The Cure did and destroy the secondary market entirely: you can sell tickets through the platform and only for what you paid for them.

how does this prevent the scalper communicating with the buyer to demand an out-of-band payment?

Because the platform doesn't need to expose the details of buyer/seller.

Most tickets these days are digital.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#128

Post by kimos »

modeless wrote: post #44

I am unsympathetic when people insist on selling things for the wrong price and then come up with these elaborate schemes for fixing the problems they themselves caused. If they would simply sell tickets for the prices people are willing to pay in the first place then they wouldn't need to invade privacy or any of this stuff. I've heard the arguments they use to justify why they don't and they're all hogwash.

This problem with this is that it assumes a supply and demand shaped problem that markets solve.

You can’t just make more Taylor Swift to meet demand. You can’t open more Taylor Swifts in different regions. Acts have a very low very rigid upper supply limit. So if you price up at that demand it puts it out of reach of almost everyone. And that’s a bad outcome for almost everyone.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#129

Post by masswerk »

modeless wrote: post #44

I am unsympathetic when people insist on selling things for the wrong price and then come up with these elaborate schemes for fixing the problems they themselves caused. If they would simply sell tickets for the prices people are willing to pay in the first place then they wouldn't need to invade privacy or any of this stuff. I've heard the arguments they use to justify why they don't and they're all hogwash.

Because artists need an at least semi-competent vis-a-vis, AKA audience. This is the main proposition for entering a stage to begin with. And chances are that the most economical potent ticket buyers are not in this group and probably also not the most enthusiastic about the act. So there's a natural incentive to aim not for the highest cap, but for a somewhat realistic medium. I.e., "the prices people are willing to pay" are probably not the prices artists are willing to perform at.

(Edit: there's a reason for opera houses providing cheap standing room for enthusiasts – it keeps the art alive.)

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#130

Post by kimos »

xandrius wrote: post #74
nextn wrote: post #73

An option I'd like to see implemented is to make the customer put down a bond. Besides charging the customer for the ticket, also charge them another higher amount that gets refunded x days after the concert. If the customer is found to be a scalper don't return the bond. Scalpers can't pay high bond amounts at scale combined with the risk of not having the bond returned.

Also filtering people who don't own much to begin with?

This is the issue with most proposed solutions here.

Artists (bands) want to sell tickets to fans and people who appreciate them. And many (probably most) have very little money.

They are able to scrape and save for a ticket. But not some bond deposit, arbitrary ticket fees, auction pricing, etc..

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