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CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

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Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#111

Post by edoceo »

const_cast wrote: post #97
WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the ticketing company's problem.

We should make it their problem, by artists not selling tickets on those websites but instead using their own resources. Essentially vertical integration, so then you have to care about the end-product and user experience. And, cherry on top, you might be able to charge more aggressive prices if you're not paying the profit of the middle-man.

Can't do that, contracts between venues and ticket vendor preclude non-blessed ticket sales. TicketMaster and LiveNation have boxed this out

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#112

Post by Symbiote »

teeray wrote: post #33

> The naive economic solution to the problem would be raising ticket prices step by step until it is no longer attractive for scalpers to resell your ticket You can also just do like The Cure did and destroy the secondary market entirely: you can sell tickets through the platform and only for what you paid for them.

This is the law in Denmark, and I think Ireland and several other European countries.

Tickets must not be sold for more than the original price. Ticketmaster etc are still happy to take part in the action: their resale system still charges a second set of ticket fees for a resale, though the sale price is limited to the purchase price.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#113

Post by RainyDayTmrw »

akrymski wrote: post #103

Could someone explain why tickets aren't sold via an auction mechanism? Surely that's the only fair way to distribute anything of limited supply

That's only "fair" in a certain, academic sense, which claims that willingness to pay more money makes someone more "deserving" - completely ignoring socioeconomic status.

That also offends a lot of people who oppose the above reasoning.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#114

Post by drob518 »

lurk2 wrote: post #70
londons_explore wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual cash income the moment the tickets go on sale. Removes all the uncertainty and risk and puts it on the scalpers.

This was my theory but there is a problem with it: Unless there is a constant churn of scalpers failing to turn a profit, the scalpers are presumably selling off their tickets at a profit. This means the market demand from individual purchasers exists, and the ticket sellers are just leaving money on the table by not raising their prices.

Bidding for tickets would cut out the scalpers and maximize revenue for the performers (and ticket agencies). So, if you want to go, pick your ticket class (rough area) and specify how much you’re willing to pay. The ticket seller orders bids by value, taking the top ones first, and then allocates tickets. Anything unsold is offered as usual on a specified day. People that really want to go get to go and the performers benefit rather than the scalpers.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#115

Post by sholladay »

As a human, I’ve had a bunch of positive experiences with Cloudflare Turnstile. It always seems to correctly identify me as a human faster than I could solve a CAPTCHA, without me having to do anything. I can’t speak to how effective it is at catching bots, though. Maybe it just errs on the side of assuming human?

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#116

Post by drob518 »

londons_explore wrote: post #35
frabcus wrote: post #19

The option that strikes me as missing, is making users pay a cost before they are randomly entered in a lottery for the ticket. So, for example, everyone pays $0.01 on their credit card, or does a holding charge on their credit card, or registers their identity. All in a 5 minute (or 1 day!) window. And then after the window, tickets are randomly distributed amongst every card which so registered. You could check mul…

I suspect the key thing is that the industry really wants scalpers, but must appear to act against them.

Neither the performers (raises prices for fans artificially) or ticket agencies (leaves money on the table) want scalpers.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#117

Post by Symbiote »

abetusk wrote: post #91
cedws wrote: post #86

I don’t get it - why not just tie the ticket to a name and address at time of purchase? Then verify that matches the person using government issued ID upon entry?

How would you handle the following conditions? * I buy a ticket for a friend (maybe as a present) but don't actually want to go to the concert * I buy more than one ticket for a group of people (I'll be attending the concert) * I buy a ticket but have to cancel at the last minute and want to give it to a friend * I don't have an easily available government ID (maybe I never got a drivers license, maybe my drivers lic…

I think I've only had this once for a concert I've attended, but generally:

> I buy a ticket for a friend (maybe as a present) but don't actually want to go to the concert

You'd need to transfer the ticket to them electronically, which is possible on all the ticket selling sites that support these restrictions.

> I buy more than one ticket for a group of people (I'll be attending the concert)

One person can buy up to X tickets (often 6), so they can attend with 5 anonymous friends.

Or transfer one/more to them as above, so they don't have to arrive at the same time as you.

> I buy a ticket but have to cancel at the last minute and want to give it to a friend

Again, transfer through the website/app.

> I don't have an easily available government ID (maybe I never got a drivers license, maybe my drivers license expired, etc.)

> People attending the event aren't American. They will have their passports from other countries. How will you verify each passport is valid?

> The event draws of people from a majority of the 50 states in the USA, with each state having different government IDs (driver's license) with different versions of the IDs within each state. What are the logistics of validating the IDs presented?

European (as I'm here) identity cards and driving licences are reasonably unified in appearance. The staff will just do their best if Americans from 50 states turn up, and probably refer anything that seems suspicious to a manager for a more careful review.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#118

Post by nothrabannosir »

lurk2 wrote: post #70
londons_explore wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual cash income the moment the tickets go on sale. Removes all the uncertainty and risk and puts it on the scalpers.

This was my theory but there is a problem with it: Unless there is a constant churn of scalpers failing to turn a profit, the scalpers are presumably selling off their tickets at a profit. This means the market demand from individual purchasers exists, and the ticket sellers are just leaving money on the table by not raising their prices.

It's a hedge. Performers are not in the business of optimizing ROI, they're in the business of performing. Scalpers provide a service: guaranteed income for a fee. There are many analogous examples in other markets where both parties happily take their respective sides of this deal, even though technically one of them is leaving money on the table.

Then there is the slightly more insidious incentive: selling out quickly is in and of itself valuable for a performer: it makes them look popular and exclusive. That alone might just make it worth it altogether.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#119

Post by kassner »

I can’t claim I’m the first one to think about this, but every time Ticketmaster shows up on HN I keep coming back to this idea:

Sell the tickets with regressive price based on time. Sales starts say 2 months before event, initial price is truly exorbitant, say one million dollars. Price decreases linearly down to zero (or true cost price). At any point, people can see current price and the seats left.

Now every potential spectator is playing a game of chicken: the more you wait, the lower the price, but also lower are the chances that you’ll have a ticket. That would capture precisely the maximum amount of dollars that each person is willing to pay for it.

This idea sounds extremely greedy, because it is, so I can’t fathom that no one ever pitched this in a Ticketmaster board meeting.

My idea, however, was a bit less greedy. Once you sold the last ticket, that would be your actual (and fair) price-per-ticket for the concert, and everyone would be refunded the difference. You’ll never know how low it will go, so you shouldn’t overpay and hope it will lower later. I’m pretty sure Ticketmaster will skip this last part if they decide to implement this.

There are multiple issues with my idea, it’s elitist, promotes financial risks on cohorts poorly capable to bear them, etc etc, but it will definitely fix the scalpers problem. Pick your poison.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#120

Post by lurk2 »

drob518 wrote: post #114
lurk2 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my theory but there is a problem with it: Unless there is a constant churn of scalpers failing to turn a profit, the scalpers are presumably selling off their tickets at a profit. This means the market demand from individual purchasers exists, and the ticket sellers are just leaving money on the table by not raising their prices.

Bidding for tickets would cut out the scalpers and maximize revenue for the performers (and ticket agencies). So, if you want to go, pick your ticket class (rough area) and specify how much you’re willing to pay. The ticket seller orders bids by value, taking the top ones first, and then allocates tickets. Anything unsold is offered as usual on a specified day. People that really want to go get to go and the performe…

My understanding is that performers have shied away from this model because it results in less affluent fans being excluded. Lotteries are generally preferred. You could theoretically eliminate lottery scalping by making the tickets non-transferable, but I’m not sure how feasible that would be.
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