Denmark to raise retirement age to 70 • Hacker News Board

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#31

Post by tossandthrow » Sun, May 25, 2025, 5:24 PM UTC

namdnay wrote: post #26

tossandthrow wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s not really a Ponzi scheme, it is completely possible for the system to be balanced, it’s just very very hard to get people to vote for you if you say they’ll have less tomorrow This is exactly what happens in Denmark - a balancing of the pension system. Also,rgis has been planned since 2006 - so it is nothing new.

A real balancing would entail cutting pensions for existing pensioners. Which is electoral suicide. So what you always end up doing is shafting future pensioners, either by pushing back the retirement age, or by doing nothing and waiting for it to explode

I reckon the presumption is that current pensioners don't live as long as future pensioners.

Hence only doing this for future pensioners will give equal time as reitred.

(at least, this is the core reasoning)

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#32

Post by polipus » Sun, May 25, 2025, 5:24 PM UTC

tossandthrow wrote: post #5

bluefirebrand wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this really changes the information? Ok, so if you're near retirement now you're fine But if you're younger, you can look forward to not retiring until 70, as if the younger generation hasn't been shit on enough Amazing stuff. One last ladder for the older generation to pull up behind them before they die, I guess

In all fairness. the housing market in Denmark is approachable - you can get houses near major cities for usd 80k. Social security, you can go unemployed for years and still pay your bills. Government provided education with stipend - having masters degrees are common. And the economy is strong. Most Danes understand that this is inevitable - the big issue is that the politicians have given themselves more favorable…

Living in Copenhagen for the last 7 years.

- housing for 80k USD is 525k DKK: no way you can find anything at that price anywhere close to cph. Not sure for other "major" cities, but in cph you can expect to pay 4mil DKK (600K USD) for a ~60 sqmt apartment, prices will fall outside the cities, but nowhere close to 80k USD. Where did you get that number?

- you pay for your unemployment benefit, thought an a-kasse. Its not forever and it might barely cover your bills depending on where you live/your mortgage. If you have family its probably not enough and you need to add an insurance on your salary on top of that.

Just wanted to give my 2 cents.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#33

Post by lostlogin » Sun, May 25, 2025, 5:25 PM UTC

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #23

tossandthrow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. And this is the case in all western countries. It is just being realized in different ways. Fundamentalle there are 3 ways to cope 1. reduce pensions 2. Raise taxes 3. Decrease amount of benefit receivers. Denmark choose number 3

Wouldn't the fourth way be via increasing either birth rate or immigration?

That’s collecting more taxes, 2, isn’t it?

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#34

Post by tossandthrow » Sun, May 25, 2025, 5:25 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #30

tossandthrow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. And this is the case in all western countries. It is just being realized in different ways. Fundamentalle there are 3 ways to cope 1. reduce pensions 2. Raise taxes 3. Decrease amount of benefit receivers. Denmark choose number 3

2 has some options. Increase the number of (young) immigrants. Increase the birthrate (has anywhere managed this?).

Birthrates are problematic as it usually take 20 to 25 years before they pay taxes. And in that time they require a lot of expenses.

They talk abiut the squeeze, if Birthrates increase too suddenly - workers would both have to pay for the elderly and the kids.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#35

Post by secondcoming » Sun, May 25, 2025, 5:25 PM UTC

UK-based here and despite it being one of the lowest state pensions in Europe, there are still complaints that it's too high. I fully expect to never receive a State Pension, and so contribute the maximum to my private pension. But even then it wouldn't surprise me if soon even those contributions got taxed too.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#36

Post by mr_toad » Sun, May 25, 2025, 5:26 PM UTC

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #23

tossandthrow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. And this is the case in all western countries. It is just being realized in different ways. Fundamentalle there are 3 ways to cope 1. reduce pensions 2. Raise taxes 3. Decrease amount of benefit receivers. Denmark choose number 3

Wouldn't the fourth way be via increasing either birth rate or immigration?

The people who would actually benefit from that the most are the people who are too old to have children and are strongly opposed to immigration.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#37

Post by tossandthrow » Sun, May 25, 2025, 5:26 PM UTC

littlestymaar wrote: post #24

tossandthrow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. And this is the case in all western countries. It is just being realized in different ways. Fundamentalle there are 3 ways to cope 1. reduce pensions 2. Raise taxes 3. Decrease amount of benefit receivers. Denmark choose number 3

You are missing the most important one: - increase productivity more than how much the workforce/receivers grow. And if AI/robots eventually deliver, we're soon going to need a discussion about lowering the retirement age to 55 or even 50 if we don't want 30% unemployment anyway.

That would be raising taxes.

- indifferent to how much automation you have, people still need to pay for it, for money they don't earn.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#38

Post by Retric » Sun, May 25, 2025, 5:26 PM UTC

lnsru wrote: post #29

It's obvious, that there is no pension in Europe in 20 years anyway. Demographics are super ugly everywhere. Investing individually is the single way, that works if one does not want to retire in under the bridge. Sadly Germany does not help me caring about my retirement taking 18.6% away and heavily taxing the rest.

The math for pensions is fine as long as the maxes payout isn’t excessive and you don’t start too early. There’s a huge cost difference between a 30k/year pension at 70 and a 45k per year pension at 60.

People also focus on a fixed percentage being returned while ignoring the long term increase in productivity and people’s standards of living. In real terms people in 2025 get way more out of pension systems than people did in 1925, that’s as central to the problem as any changes in lifespan.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#39

Post by JackYoustra » Sun, May 25, 2025, 5:26 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #33

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the fourth way be via increasing either birth rate or immigration?

That’s collecting more taxes, 2, isn’t it?

technically true but people usually associate that with rate increases

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#40

Post by lostlogin » Sun, May 25, 2025, 5:27 PM UTC

littlestymaar wrote: post #24

tossandthrow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. And this is the case in all western countries. It is just being realized in different ways. Fundamentalle there are 3 ways to cope 1. reduce pensions 2. Raise taxes 3. Decrease amount of benefit receivers. Denmark choose number 3

You are missing the most important one: - increase productivity more than how much the workforce/receivers grow. And if AI/robots eventually deliver, we're soon going to need a discussion about lowering the retirement age to 55 or even 50 if we don't want 30% unemployment anyway.

The money made and saved isn’t going to go to governments and the population though. As it stands, a couple of billionaires will become richer.