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Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

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Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#91

Post by nradov »

robnado wrote: post #77
corp8drone8sf wrote: post #17

Commenting anon, because i'm very concerned about how we are leaving the industry for our children, and how little executives care about the future. 1. anything we used to give to entry-level we now give to offshore workers, typically in Asia. While mean wages metrics look great, the cost savings are an illusion because we spend twice as much time communicating and tacking back and forth to the final answer across ti…

Software Engineers need to get involved politically and demand regulations that systems that are critical for national security be developed by residents of the US on US soil by actual people with the right qualifications.

What are the right qualifications? Most military software development work already requires a security clearance and can only be performed on US soil.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#92

Post by nradov »

paularmstrong wrote: post #82
3thr0waway wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm. At FAANG, it typically works like this. What's really striking to me is the rate of attrition. Can anyone explain it? Aren't these good jobs? Aren't there less opportunities for good jobs for them to be able to churn to? Where are they going? Why do they churn at such high rates?

High paying jobs? yes. Good jobs? no. The organizations are typically dysfunctional and all of the things that the original comment here lead to really poor working environments and burnout.

Poor working environments? You mean the office is sometimes too noisy or too cold or the coffee runs out?

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#93

Post by michaelmrose »

ty6853 wrote: post #2

I did a lot of driving forklifts, construction, moving, factory work, etc when junior in the job market after graduating near the top of my class with strong internship experience from a top 10 engineering college. Adjusting expectations is important. If you start with the expectation that all you will have is a pot to piss in then it is all up from there. Things may never look up, but when they do, I've found a lot…

What can easily happen is that you take the shit work to survive but it takes so much of your time and so much out of you and you fall behind and miss opportunities and it becomes impossible to climb out of the hole.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#94

Post by franktankbank »

nradov wrote: post #91
robnado wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software Engineers need to get involved politically and demand regulations that systems that are critical for national security be developed by residents of the US on US soil by actual people with the right qualifications.

What are the right qualifications? Most military software development work already requires a security clearance and can only be performed on US soil.

Healthcare IT is dominated by India. No skin in the game, no thought for the end customers (patients).

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#95

Post by pksebben »

entuno wrote: post #54
margorczynski wrote: post #5

Is it AI or just good ol' offshoring? Mix of both? If AI can just make any dev 10-20% more efficient that's a whole lot of jobs no longer needed.

Offshoring to people who use AI, and are now much more productive and can produce high-quality written output. If a junior role can be done with ChatGPT and CoPilot, why pay a western salary for it when you can pay someone a fraction of the salary to use the same thing?

Because eventually you're going to need a senior dev who actually has an understanding of the underlying system, when the one you have retires. The human junior will eventually become that, while it would be foolish to rely on the inevitability of LLMs getting there in time.

Of course, this only matters if you give half a rat's ass about whether the company is going to be solvent in a decade. If your management strategy is "pump metrics for bonuses and bail before they notice" then potayto potahto I suppose...

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#96

Post by franktankbank »

nradov wrote: post #92
paularmstrong wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High paying jobs? yes. Good jobs? no. The organizations are typically dysfunctional and all of the things that the original comment here lead to really poor working environments and burnout.

Poor working environments? You mean the office is sometimes too noisy or too cold or the coffee runs out?

Backbiting, nepotism, self-dealing.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#97

Post by eyesofgod »

moron4hire wrote: post #36
corp8drone8sf wrote: post #17

Commenting anon, because i'm very concerned about how we are leaving the industry for our children, and how little executives care about the future. 1. anything we used to give to entry-level we now give to offshore workers, typically in Asia. While mean wages metrics look great, the cost savings are an illusion because we spend twice as much time communicating and tacking back and forth to the final answer across ti…

Whenever this topic turns to AI in media, I like to say that AI isn't going to destroy culture, the destructive force against culture (i.e. Big Hollywood) is going to use AI to do it.

[dead]

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#98

Post by entuno »

collingreen wrote: post #64
entuno wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offshoring to people who use AI, and are now much more productive and can produce high-quality written output. If a junior role can be done with ChatGPT and CoPilot, why pay a western salary for it when you can pay someone a fraction of the salary to use the same thing?

Why doesn't that equally mean pay a new grad to use it?

If often does - but it's a new grad in India or Bangladesh or Indonesia or somewhere else that costs a fraction of what a new grad would cost in a western country, and who can be "fired" at with no notice or rights.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#99

Post by glouwbug »

satvikpendem wrote: post #55

Most of this is not occurring due to AI or offshoring, that's just what's told to investors. In reality, it's the macroeconomic climate that has shifted since a few years ago, namely Section 174 changes for amortization of R&D expenditures, overhiring during covid, and higher Fed rates.

The only real answer. AI is the current scapegoat for any self-inflicted short sightedness, like the 0% interest rate over-hiring times of 2020-2021. Why blame yourself as a company when you can blame the loudest current news and market hype wave?
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