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Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

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Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#51

Post by close04 »

ty6853 wrote: post #2

I did a lot of driving forklifts, construction, moving, factory work, etc when junior in the job market after graduating near the top of my class with strong internship experience from a top 10 engineering college. Adjusting expectations is important. If you start with the expectation that all you will have is a pot to piss in then it is all up from there. Things may never look up, but when they do, I've found a lot…

For a lot of students out there now the reality of the "opportunity cost" is skewed. They will invest enormous amounts of time and effort in being the best in uni even if this alone may not bring them a guaranteed leg up over the competition when they face the adult working world.

My academic career was always revolving around the top but never quite at the top. So eventually I gave up on investing more effort for diminishing returns and focused on having an advantage the others weren't pursuing. I started working very early, with some embarrassingly shitty jobs at first, each of which allowed me to get the next slightly less embarrassingly shitty job subsequently and so on. I'm glossing over what could have been a long string of lucky breaks that probably made all the difference.

Anyway, by the time we finished university my colleagues who were right at the top got catapulted into the working world all the way to the level I had years before. Not quite ground level but not far. And I can still see that handicap in most of their careers even now, decades later.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#52

Post by bilbo0s »

margorczynski wrote: post #5

Is it AI or just good ol' offshoring? Mix of both? If AI can just make any dev 10-20% more efficient that's a whole lot of jobs no longer needed.

It's both.

A new grad in Asia with AI access is just as good as a new grad in the US. Only way cheaper in the long run.

Where will we get experienced seniors in 20 years? Well first, will we even need theme? Will AI's be able to replace even seniors by that point? I mean, I'd put money on "Yes" to that question. Even if you're thinking "No", I mean the kids we're hiring now in Asia will be that much better in 20 years. And will be fluent with AI technologies and have a facility with them that we can only imagine today. Not only that, the AI's will be 20 years better.

I'm not sure that software development is a good long term plan for a young person in the US right now. Just being honest. Better to use what you know about software right now to try to start your own digital service of some kind. Just my 2 cents though. I could be totally off.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#53

Post by qoez »

corp8drone8sf wrote: post #17

Commenting anon, because i'm very concerned about how we are leaving the industry for our children, and how little executives care about the future. 1. anything we used to give to entry-level we now give to offshore workers, typically in Asia. While mean wages metrics look great, the cost savings are an illusion because we spend twice as much time communicating and tacking back and forth to the final answer across ti…

> it is ridiculous to expect a computer science grand to "driving forklifts, construction, moving, factory work"

I agree, but at the same time this is what we told truck drivers when self driving cars was going to take over like a decade ago ("reskill, and at your own dime"). Kind of karma. Capitalism doesn't care unfortunately.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#54

Post by entuno »

margorczynski wrote: post #5

Is it AI or just good ol' offshoring? Mix of both? If AI can just make any dev 10-20% more efficient that's a whole lot of jobs no longer needed.

Offshoring to people who use AI, and are now much more productive and can produce high-quality written output.

If a junior role can be done with ChatGPT and CoPilot, why pay a western salary for it when you can pay someone a fraction of the salary to use the same thing?

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#55

Post by satvikpendem »

Most of this is not occurring due to AI or offshoring, that's just what's told to investors. In reality, it's the macroeconomic climate that has shifted since a few years ago, namely Section 174 changes for amortization of R&D expenditures, overhiring during covid, and higher Fed rates.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#57

Post by 3thr0waway »

corp8drone8sf wrote: post #17

Commenting anon, because i'm very concerned about how we are leaving the industry for our children, and how little executives care about the future. 1. anything we used to give to entry-level we now give to offshore workers, typically in Asia. While mean wages metrics look great, the cost savings are an illusion because we spend twice as much time communicating and tacking back and forth to the final answer across ti…

Can confirm.

At FAANG, it typically works like this.

What's really striking to me is the rate of attrition. Can anyone explain it?

Aren't these good jobs? Aren't there less opportunities for good jobs for them to be able to churn to?

Where are they going? Why do they churn at such high rates?

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#58

Post by indigodaddy »

How about something like a NOC tech [1]? You can't AI that one yet I don't think. Also it's still a generally good foot-in-the-door, even for grads who might initially dismiss it as lower-than-thou (I mainly see it as a great starting point because of the fundamentals you will learn that are invaluable and will carry you through your career more than one would imagine). You just have to "work for it" and scrape your way up a bit more, sure-- but I mean, you kinda always have to do this when you are first starting out, no?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24670746

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#59

Post by lotsofpulp »

Loudergood wrote: post #11
ty6853 wrote: post #2

I did a lot of driving forklifts, construction, moving, factory work, etc when junior in the job market after graduating near the top of my class with strong internship experience from a top 10 engineering college. Adjusting expectations is important. If you start with the expectation that all you will have is a pot to piss in then it is all up from there. Things may never look up, but when they do, I've found a lot…

Student loans generally don't wait, and most people wail while they're working the shitty jobs.

Why is why one shouldn’t take on large amounts of debt for questionable return.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#60

Post by rkozik1989 »

margorczynski wrote: post #5

Is it AI or just good ol' offshoring? Mix of both? If AI can just make any dev 10-20% more efficient that's a whole lot of jobs no longer needed.

A few years back somebody on Reddit posted a spreadsheet with tech companies that were hiring SWEs at that time, so to try and help my wife who's been hunting since her arrival in the states in October I decided to revisit last week. It was downright demoralizing how many companies (assuming they still existed) were only hiring for positions in Indian or LATAM offices. If I had to put a figure on it I'd say it was greater than 80% of the companies I looked at.
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