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Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

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Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#61

Post by ty6853 »

alephnerd wrote: post #49
ty6853 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

B2B. Use an employer of record type setup. You are an employee of a shell in the country you reside, the real 'employer' is just buying a B2B service.

That doesn't help with the tax incentives which is a major driver for why you are seeing significant offshoring. Plenty of major tech hubs in CEE and India give 80-100% tax rebates or PLIs to foreign companies opening and hiring locally IF they also mandate RTO in those offices. They tend to recover the cost through income tax and VAT.

At worst your wage would be tax discounted by that margin. You're competing on real cost, all you have to do is operate on a competitive basis against people with similar level of education, skill, and the unfortunately highly valuable 1st world cultural and language integration.

Might be racist but that is going to likely overcome the tax savings on some random guy of otherwise similar software skills in India.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#63

Post by apercu »

corp8drone8sf wrote: post #17

Commenting anon, because i'm very concerned about how we are leaving the industry for our children, and how little executives care about the future. 1. anything we used to give to entry-level we now give to offshore workers, typically in Asia. While mean wages metrics look great, the cost savings are an illusion because we spend twice as much time communicating and tacking back and forth to the final answer across ti…

>While mean wages metrics look great, the cost savings are an illusion because we spend twice as much time communicating and tacking back and forth to the final answer across timezones. compensation consultants dont care about that, they care about mean wage metrics

100% this. What you save in dollars is spent in time. Not just more documentation requirements, not just more meetings, not just changing your schedule to work early or late in crunch times, but way more time resolving obvious, easy issues.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#64

Post by collingreen »

entuno wrote: post #54
margorczynski wrote: post #5

Is it AI or just good ol' offshoring? Mix of both? If AI can just make any dev 10-20% more efficient that's a whole lot of jobs no longer needed.

Offshoring to people who use AI, and are now much more productive and can produce high-quality written output. If a junior role can be done with ChatGPT and CoPilot, why pay a western salary for it when you can pay someone a fraction of the salary to use the same thing?

Why doesn't that equally mean pay a new grad to use it?

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#65

Post by bilbo0s »

entuno wrote: post #54
margorczynski wrote: post #5

Is it AI or just good ol' offshoring? Mix of both? If AI can just make any dev 10-20% more efficient that's a whole lot of jobs no longer needed.

Offshoring to people who use AI, and are now much more productive and can produce high-quality written output. If a junior role can be done with ChatGPT and CoPilot, why pay a western salary for it when you can pay someone a fraction of the salary to use the same thing?

Most succinct answer to this general concern I've seen in months.

It's business. Less dollars paid out for the same LLM content that the managers know the developers will produce in any case. Foolish to pay more for essentially the same LLM response.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#66

Post by supportengineer »

corp8drone8sf wrote: post #30
alephnerd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people are are told to hire h1 only -- not explicitly -- but implicitly I've funded and worked at a number of companies in the Enterprise SaaS space, and that's bull. I'm not saving any costs with a Visa sponsored employee. At that point I may as well fully offshore to a GCC.

))) Yeah that's bull. I'm not saving any costs with a Visa sponsored employee. It often isnt about saving money, it is about having fragile immigrant workers on a leash that you can control with the constant threat of layoff--->deportation

I’ve watched this abuse firsthand for most of my career, over 25 years

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#67

Post by some_random »

I remember seeing someone make a joke that COVID-19 never happened, and the evidence that they cited was that people keep making arguments that obviously, clearly do not incorporate several years of global pandemic, lockdowns, deaths, hirings, layoffs, etc. I suppose we have more evidence for that right here with the article citing a 50% drop in new grad hires since 2019 as if 2020-2024 was a nice linear-ish change over time we can extrapolate over.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#69

Post by bilbo0s »

collingreen wrote: post #64
entuno wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offshoring to people who use AI, and are now much more productive and can produce high-quality written output. If a junior role can be done with ChatGPT and CoPilot, why pay a western salary for it when you can pay someone a fraction of the salary to use the same thing?

Why doesn't that equally mean pay a new grad to use it?

Because a new grad in the US costs more than a new grad in Vietnam, Hyderabad, Uruguay, or Ningbo.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#70

Post by franktankbank »

alephnerd wrote: post #33
corp8drone8sf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

))) Yeah that's bull. I'm not saving any costs with a Visa sponsored employee. It often isnt about saving money, it is about having fragile immigrant workers on a leash that you can control with the constant threat of layoff--->deportation

If it's control, you get the same in CEE and India with restrictive non-compete clauses that would make Illinois look like an open market, frivolous lawsuits, and no-objection certificates. Control doesn't impact my bottom line. Reality is, H1B hiring is just as impacted as normal hiring in the US.

When shits tight H1B should be the first thing impacted. Whole point of the program is that there is a supposed lack of supply. Nevermind though because the whole thing has become a machine of bribes grift and kickbacks. No wonder you would jump to its defense as a beneficiary of the machine.
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