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Rocky Linux 10 Will Support RISC-V

rockylinux.org

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Re: Rocky Linux 10 Will Support RISC-V

#81

Post by Propelloni »

dgfitz wrote: post #27
gerdesj wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got Ubuntu 22.04 lying around that still update because they are LTS. Ubuntu has a well publicised policy for releases and you will have obviously read them. Try do-release-upgrade. You also mention "OS supplied from a vendor with extensive customization. Apt was dead." How on earth is that Ubuntu's problem?

I cannot update the OS per the contract. It’s Ubuntu’s problem because they decide they’re smarter than their users and nuke their repos. Fuck all of that.

I get your frustration but this is really a problem of the vendor. We had something similar about 3 years ago, where a vendor delivered a proprietary driver for a piece of hardware that only worked with a specific 2.6 Linux kernel version--making it at least six years old. Is this the Linux project's fault? I don't think so.

Re: Rocky Linux 10 Will Support RISC-V

#83

Post by aragilar »

pabs3 wrote: post #51
jabl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The version and ABI guarantee is not for everyone. As an aside, that kABI guarantee only goes so far. I work in HPC/AI, and the out-of-tree drivers we use like MOFED and Lustre drivers would break with EVERY SINGLE RHEL minor update (like RHEL X.Y -> X.(Y+1) ). Using past form here because I haven't been using RHEL for this purpose for the past ~5 years, so maybe it has changed since although I doubt it.

Is anyone trying to get those drivers upstreamed?

Lustre got dropped from the kernel, so it seems unlikely?

Re: Rocky Linux 10 Will Support RISC-V

#84

Post by nine_k »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #42
nine_k wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard many good things about Pop OS. It's like Ubuntu done right, and it does have an apt package for Firefox. (I run Void myself, and stay merrily away from all these complications.)

> It's like Ubuntu done right But it is Ubuntu?

It's based on Ubuntu, but it's different enough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop!_OS

Re: Rocky Linux 10 Will Support RISC-V

#85

Post by aragilar »

homebrewer wrote: post #60
copperx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to confess that my early experiences with RedHat as a teenager and dealing with the nightmareish RPM dependencies soured me from the distribution. I went to Debian and then its many descendants and never looked back; APT seemed magical in comparison. I assume they have a package manager that resolves dependencies well now? Is that what an RPM wrangler is?

This is a very outdated view. dnf runs circles around apt. Try it out, or at least find man pages on the ole 'net and see what it can do. Probably the thing I like the most is transactional installation (or upgrades/downgrades/removals) of packages with proper structured history of all package operations (not just a bunch of log records which you have to parse yourself), and the ability to revert any of those transac…

Possibly I'm just more used to apt (though fedora was my first linux), but I've found apt has better interfaces for what I'm trying to do (e.g. querying the state of the system and ensuring consistency across machines), and I've not found an equivalent to aptitude for dnf.

Side-note, the other difference I've noticed is Debian (and presumably its derivatives) has better defaults (and debconf) for packages, so whereas stock config would work on Debian, on Rocky I have to change config files, install missing packages etc.

Re: Rocky Linux 10 Will Support RISC-V

#86

Post by aragilar »

dgfitz wrote: post #27
gerdesj wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got Ubuntu 22.04 lying around that still update because they are LTS. Ubuntu has a well publicised policy for releases and you will have obviously read them. Try do-release-upgrade. You also mention "OS supplied from a vendor with extensive customization. Apt was dead." How on earth is that Ubuntu's problem?

I cannot update the OS per the contract. It’s Ubuntu’s problem because they decide they’re smarter than their users and nuke their repos. Fuck all of that.

Oh, you got that bit of fun... That's not an apt problem, that's a Ubuntu problem (and it's a reason I encourage people to either stick to LTS if they must use Ubuntu, or just run Debian or and other distro which doesn't block upgrades).

Re: Rocky Linux 10 Will Support RISC-V

#87

Post by IshKebab »

publicmail wrote: post #23

Maybe a dumb question but how do non x86 boards normally boot Linux images in a generic way? When I was in the embedded space, our boards all relied on very specific device tree blobs. Is the same strategy used for these or does it use ACPI or something?

They basically don't at the moment. RISC-V is working on ACPI and "universal discovery" as a solution but it doesn't exist yet.

Re: Rocky Linux 10 Will Support RISC-V

#88

Post by kj4ips »

jabl wrote: post #41
thebeardisred wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! I'm sorry this has been your experience. I'm one of the Red Hatters who's been working behind the scenes to get this over the finish line. I do say my genuine thanks for your earnest expression. The version and ABI guarantee is not for everyone. At the same time some folks around these parts know that I'm "not an apologist for running an out of date kernel". I can assure you that everything shipped in the forthco…

> The version and ABI guarantee is not for everyone. As an aside, that kABI guarantee only goes so far. I work in HPC/AI, and the out-of-tree drivers we use like MOFED and Lustre drivers would break with EVERY SINGLE RHEL minor update (like RHEL X.Y -> X.(Y+1) ). Using past form here because I haven't been using RHEL for this purpose for the past ~5 years, so maybe it has changed since although I doubt it.

In that boat now, weak-modules means you sometimes get lucky, and can reuse. However, since it's more effort to determine if a rebuild is needed than just slap the "build all the vendor kmods and slurm" button, we tend to build for each kernel. IIRC el8 added kernel symbol signature hashes as Provide/Requires, with automation to extract them at build time, so kmods got a lot easier to deal with.

Re: Rocky Linux 10 Will Support RISC-V

#90

Post by inejge »

pjmlp wrote: post #80
rubitxxx10 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m old. I used one of the original boxed RH distros. It was cool then. That was almost 30 years ago. I know they give back to Linux, and I’m thankful for the enterprises that pay for it because of that. It’s not a bad company, though it’s strange that you could be a great developer and lose your position there if your project gets cut, unless another team picks you up, from what I hear. But when Linus created Linux,…

Except Linux only took off thanks to those that didn't want to pay for UNIX, and the UNIX vendors that wanted to cut down R&D costs from their own in-house UNIX clones, and were uncertain if BSD was still safe to use with the ongoing AT&T lawsuit.

Re the last part: USL vs BSDi was filed in 1992 and settled in 1994, long before any sizeable vendor paid attention to Linux. (Version 1.0 of the Linux kernel was released at about the same time that lawsuit was settled.) So you shouldn't use that argument as part of your rationale.
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