Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

neowin.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 150 posts

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#111

Post by wkat4242 »

sph wrote: post #99
Aardwolf wrote: post #71

Why "finally"? To me, KDE's job should be to organize and render windows, application launcher icons, and the like If I want a virtual machine, I'll use a virtual machine for that All this "KDE suite" stuff and what not is unnecesarry - some of these are good pieces of software that I like to use, but there's no reason they need any integration with a desktop environment (arguably a few basics like a file manager, VT…

> Also, any integration attempts like making the icons a common asset rather than each application have their own, _fail_ and make things worse, with these integrations applications less often have working icons at all, and more often have mistakes like black icons against a black background making them invisible One thing the GNOME community got right, despite the clamour and gnashing of teeth. https://stopthemingmy…

It works pretty well for Qt apps though. They just theme the titlebar and some things like fonts.

I don't want every app to have a different look or 'brand' as that page says. I want my system to be consistent.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#112

Post by wkat4242 »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #106
darkwater wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it still exists, by looking at the NEWS section! That's a long grudge to hold :)

I don't know that it's a grudge per se; people liked KDE 3, so they forked it and stayed on the working thing that they liked. Don't fix what isn't broken.

Yeah it's kinda the same thing that happened to gnome 2 though it wasn't really a fork but rather a respawn in the form of cinnamon.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#113

Post by wkat4242 »

DocTomoe wrote: post #75
jopicornell wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's something I think as well. I've tried 4 times through the years, and KDE always felt less stable and solid than Gnome. I guess it's the configurability of KDE that makes it that way. I like the concept, but I guess maintaining it is no easy task, and people is more motivated to add things than fix them.

KDE lost me when they moved from the relatively stable (and - let's face it - pretty Windows 9x-style) KDE 3.5 to KDE 4. It was promised as a quantum leap, but Plasma came over as unstable, unfinished, and lacking a lot of the functionality I came to love with the 3.5 stack. In the end, I gave up, went to window managers instead to full DEs, then to i3, and now am on a Mac. Still, I remember 3.5 fondly. The last good…

It's not really windows 9x style? It's highly configurable so you can make it look like that but you don't have to. Even without theming it.

I find it a lot more sensible than windows especially because the latter started embedding ads and "helpful suggestions" everywhere in the UI.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#115

Post by anthk »

wkat4242 wrote: post #114
anthk wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in Spanish. Cardboard.

Yes but there it's with a C again. And an accent on the o.

It still sounds the same for any Spanish speaker. The accent it's just an stress mark. And we use the k for kilos and lots of daily words, such as kiwi or kiosko.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#116

Post by LambdaComplex »

wkat4242 wrote: post #112
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that it's a grudge per se; people liked KDE 3, so they forked it and stayed on the working thing that they liked. Don't fix what isn't broken.

Yeah it's kinda the same thing that happened to gnome 2 though it wasn't really a fork but rather a respawn in the form of cinnamon.

I think you're thinking of MATE. Cinnamon is a fork of GNOME 3.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#117

Post by franga2000 »

sph wrote: post #99
Aardwolf wrote: post #71

Why "finally"? To me, KDE's job should be to organize and render windows, application launcher icons, and the like If I want a virtual machine, I'll use a virtual machine for that All this "KDE suite" stuff and what not is unnecesarry - some of these are good pieces of software that I like to use, but there's no reason they need any integration with a desktop environment (arguably a few basics like a file manager, VT…

> Also, any integration attempts like making the icons a common asset rather than each application have their own, _fail_ and make things worse, with these integrations applications less often have working icons at all, and more often have mistakes like black icons against a black background making them invisible One thing the GNOME community got right, despite the clamour and gnashing of teeth. https://stopthemingmy…

The linked site goes against everything the Linux* platform has historically stood for and frankly just sounds like designers whining that they can't design for computers like they used to for print. I see the same fight against customization on the web, where designers keep asking for ways to, for example, override font and font size preferences, default widget styling, prevent/hijack zoom/select/search/context/whatever.

Your UI is a collection of input/output widgets. The vast majority of apps have maybe one or two app-specific widgets and the rest are completely standard. Why the hell do so many developers insist on styling every stupid textbox just they way they like it?? No, fuck you, a textbox is a textbox, your textbox isn't special, if I want texboxes on my screen to be in purple comic sans on a green background, that's exactly what they should look like.

The reason why apps break when custom themes are applied is almost always because a developer made a "white box with a grey border and black text" instead of a "--bg-surface-color box with a --border-color border and --fg-primary-color text".

It's the same with icons - if you want a homepage button, reference the "home" icon. If you want a house/flat/skyscraper/boathouse dropdown, reference the "house" icon. If you use "home" to show a house because that's what it is on your theme, don't be surprised (let alone angry) that I've set home to a picture of a cat and now your dropdown makes no sense.

Yes, sometimes the platform doesn't give you enough tools to adhere to the system theme (although most apps aren't complex enough to run into that), but there are usually workarounds or you can open a bug report. Most "modern" developers, however, just don't. They draw their UI in Figma and set out to make it in code, pixel-for-pixel if possible.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#118

Post by 1oooqooq »

wkat4242 wrote: post #111
sph wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, any integration attempts like making the icons a common asset rather than each application have their own, _fail_ and make things worse, with these integrations applications less often have working icons at all, and more often have mistakes like black icons against a black background making them invisible One thing the GNOME community got right, despite the clamour and gnashing of teeth. https://stopthemingmy…

It works pretty well for Qt apps though. They just theme the titlebar and some things like fonts. I don't want every app to have a different look or 'brand' as that page says. I want my system to be consistent.

the last version of plasma is here to prove your wrong.

open the color panel and tick the option "tint window title bar with accent color"... which used to be just the window decorator title and borders. ... now some dev wanting to post screenshots on Reddit decided the accent color should be a light pastel tone that can be applied to the top elements of the qt application, bringing back the worst of gnome 2 era.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#119

Post by alxlaz »

sph wrote: post #99
Aardwolf wrote: post #71

Why "finally"? To me, KDE's job should be to organize and render windows, application launcher icons, and the like If I want a virtual machine, I'll use a virtual machine for that All this "KDE suite" stuff and what not is unnecesarry - some of these are good pieces of software that I like to use, but there's no reason they need any integration with a desktop environment (arguably a few basics like a file manager, VT…

> Also, any integration attempts like making the icons a common asset rather than each application have their own, _fail_ and make things worse, with these integrations applications less often have working icons at all, and more often have mistakes like black icons against a black background making them invisible One thing the GNOME community got right, despite the clamour and gnashing of teeth. https://stopthemingmy…

"Right" is a bit of a stretch. Manicured screenshots are a tiny subset of theming requirements. People went to great lengths to theme GTK because, for the longest time, Adwaita was truly atrocious, with poor contrast in inactive windows and retina-burning acid active colours.

KDE solved 99% of the theming requirements by just allowing color customisation and shipping with a default theme that doesn't suck too badly.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#120

Post by DocTomoe »

wkat4242 wrote: post #113
DocTomoe wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KDE lost me when they moved from the relatively stable (and - let's face it - pretty Windows 9x-style) KDE 3.5 to KDE 4. It was promised as a quantum leap, but Plasma came over as unstable, unfinished, and lacking a lot of the functionality I came to love with the 3.5 stack. In the end, I gave up, went to window managers instead to full DEs, then to i3, and now am on a Mac. Still, I remember 3.5 fondly. The last good…

It's not really windows 9x style? It's highly configurable so you can make it look like that but you don't have to. Even without theming it. I find it a lot more sensible than windows especially because the latter started embedding ads and "helpful suggestions" everywhere in the UI.

I'm not talking about theming, but the general feel of the UI. It did not try and win innovation trophies back in the day, it was a platform that gave you the feeling it was ready for serious work to be done on, relatively stable, similar UI language over several programs, that kind of thing. Konqueror as the dual file manager / web browser was great, but it was "something on top", not "something radically different from proprietary UIs" like Gnome kept doing in that timeframe.

I think it was the closest we ever came to a 'Linux on the Desktop' year for a mass market.

Post reply on HN