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Federal agencies continue terminating all funding to Harvard

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Re: Federal agencies continue terminating all funding to Harvard

#121

Post by biimugan »

uhhhd wrote: post #37
markoman wrote: post #5

What exactly are the 'unsafe anti-Semitic actions' that Harvard Univ has committed? Is this whole thing about how Harvard hasn't suppressed the free speech rights of its students as they protested the wholesale bombing of Gaza? Its not like Harvard is rife with far-right activists denying the Holocaust and such. I can't imagine that Harvard wouldn't win their case quite roundly. Law firms & universities have to stop…

Why not try to do the minimum amount of research before complaining about it online? Here's a complaint from a recent lawsuit by a collection of Jewish Harvard students against the university. It's a good starting point. https://www.kasowitz.com/media/unxcnvpo/harvard-complaint.pd...

That's fine, but allegations in a law suit aren't prima facie evidence of anything. Especially when the text of that law suit is filled with political invective (calling protesting students and faculty "uncontrolled antisemitic mobs" and so forth).

There's a very easy determination to be made here about which students are or are not being victimized. If my knowledge of current events is still accurate, not a single pro-Israel student has been extra-judicially kidnapped and imprisoned. Pro-Israel Jewish students very well may feel victimized or scared. But put into perspective, I can imagine that pro-Palestinian students feel it much more so.

Re: Federal agencies continue terminating all funding to Harvard

#122

Post by biimugan »

_zagj wrote: post #19

Harvard currently has a $52 billion endowment on which it pays no tax: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/26/business/harvard-endowmen... Why are progressives not bothered more by this?

They are bothered by it. But the anti-liberal, extra-judicial, law-ignoring method this administration is levying against Harvard is also being levied against many, many other progressive priorities and interests worth even more than taxes on a $52B trust fund.

Re: Federal agencies continue terminating all funding to Harvard

#123

Post by ethbr1 »

const_cast wrote: post #101
uhhhd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I know there were specific instances of Anti-Semitism, which were wrong and should be punished, but is there evidence Harvard didn't take action for those?" That is literally the allegation made in the lawsuit. And calling these protests merely "anti-Israel" is intentionally obtuse — it ignores the blatant anti-Jewish bigotry that was plainly on display.

> And calling these protests merely "anti-Israel" is intentionally obtuse No actually I think it's right on the money. Some vaguely brown people being very mad at Israel does not antisemitism make. Are they denying the Holocaust? Are they saying Jews should die? Or... are they saying Israel is committing a genocide? Are they blaming those particular jews running Israel? I think we all know it's almost entirely the la…

[flagged]

Re: Federal agencies continue terminating all funding to Harvard

#124

Post by ethbr1 »

bernb wrote: post #111
mandmandam wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't think this answers my questions. Anti-Zionism is about the idea that there should be no state of Israel. How should this be achieved without war and a genocide-like event? What are people that are in favor of Anti-Zionism specifically hoping for?

Israel gives the Palestinians a contiguous state with sea access is exchange for a mutual recognition of borders.

The root problem that anti-Zionists have in practice (rather than the "no state of Israel" loonies) is Palestinians having a viable state (economically and territorially).

Both of those are things Israel (with the help of Arab funding) could fix tomorrow, if its current government weren't kowtowing to its ultra-right / illegal settler minority for political reasons.

Re: Federal agencies continue terminating all funding to Harvard

#125

Post by ethbr1 »

AStonesThrow wrote: post #108
mandmandam wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The trouble is that Israel-Palestine is a proxy war with spiritual implications. Israel is composed of people who just went through a legitimate holocaust and genocide themselves. Therefore it seems logical to most people that they'd be ready and willing to exact vengeance in the measure it was dished out to them. Furthermore, their Tanakh (our Old Testament) details the battles between the Children of Israel and the…

> Now the Arab world is nakedly genocidal against the Jews. They really make no bones about their desire to wipe Israel from the face of the Earth.

You missed the various normalization treaties over the years:

- 1979 Egypt https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93Israel_peace_t...

- 1994 Jordan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Jordan_peace_...

- 2020 Bahrain and UAE https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Accords

- 2020 Morocco https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Morocco_norma...

With Syria potentially being added, in return for sanctions relief. And Saudi Arabia gradually inching towards recognition.

Re: Federal agencies continue terminating all funding to Harvard

#126

Post by bernb »

ethbr1 wrote: post #124
bernb wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this answers my questions. Anti-Zionism is about the idea that there should be no state of Israel. How should this be achieved without war and a genocide-like event? What are people that are in favor of Anti-Zionism specifically hoping for?

Israel gives the Palestinians a contiguous state with sea access is exchange for a mutual recognition of borders. The root problem that anti-Zionists have in practice (rather than the "no state of Israel" loonies) is Palestinians having a viable state (economically and territorially). Both of those are things Israel (with the help of Arab funding) could fix tomorrow, if its current government weren't kowtowing to its…

I can totally see how the settlements and politics of Israel in the westbank would prevent a viable Palestinian state.

I know less about Gaza (haven't been there to begin with), but my impression is that Gaza had much more freedom within it's borders. It's unfortunate that the people there voted for a terror organization back then that as their very first act murdered the opposition and has no interest at all to work for the benefit of the Palestinian people.

Recognition of borders by Hamas will obviously never happen, so as long as they rule in Gaza or might potentially rule in Gaza or the westbank in the future it would be way too much risk for Israel to expose their borders.

Re: Federal agencies continue terminating all funding to Harvard

#127

Post by computerthings »

bernb wrote: post #126
ethbr1 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel gives the Palestinians a contiguous state with sea access is exchange for a mutual recognition of borders. The root problem that anti-Zionists have in practice (rather than the "no state of Israel" loonies) is Palestinians having a viable state (economically and territorially). Both of those are things Israel (with the help of Arab funding) could fix tomorrow, if its current government weren't kowtowing to its…

I can totally see how the settlements and politics of Israel in the westbank would prevent a viable Palestinian state. I know less about Gaza (haven't been there to begin with), but my impression is that Gaza had much more freedom within it's borders. It's unfortunate that the people there voted for a terror organization back then that as their very first act murdered the opposition and has no interest at all to work…

[dead]

Re: Federal agencies continue terminating all funding to Harvard

#128

Post by spwa4 »

bernb wrote: post #126
ethbr1 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel gives the Palestinians a contiguous state with sea access is exchange for a mutual recognition of borders. The root problem that anti-Zionists have in practice (rather than the "no state of Israel" loonies) is Palestinians having a viable state (economically and territorially). Both of those are things Israel (with the help of Arab funding) could fix tomorrow, if its current government weren't kowtowing to its…

I can totally see how the settlements and politics of Israel in the westbank would prevent a viable Palestinian state. I know less about Gaza (haven't been there to begin with), but my impression is that Gaza had much more freedom within it's borders. It's unfortunate that the people there voted for a terror organization back then that as their very first act murdered the opposition and has no interest at all to work…

I think everyone forgets just how much money Palestinians receive, effectively because of the war with Israel (or they wouldn't receive anywhere near this amount without that war). This guarantees the war continues. None of the states in the middle east around Israel are anywhere close to Palestine, economically. What Palestinians are receiving amounts to $1000/person (or $13000/person/yr) for nothing. That doesn't include payments from the middle eastern countries like Qatar, which reportedly are enough to make all Palestinian government leaders billionaires, as well as run both hamas and the PA.

If Palestinians needed to support their own economy, well, let's look at the neighboring countries:

Egypt: 3,457.46 GDP/capita/yr

Jordan: 4,455.51 GDP/capita/yr

Lebanon: 3,654.36 GDP/capita/yr

(This is NOT income, it's GDP, let's generously say average income would be half that)

So napkin math: peace with Israel would cost Palestinians 7/8th or 87.5% of the average income of a Palestinian. Well, let's say they wouldn't lose all aid. Let's say it would cost them 75% of their income. It would be a worse economic disaster for them than WW2 was in Europe. Frankly it's so much of a loss that I do actually kind of believe Israel's government also wants the war: the business they get from Palestinians is still between 15 and 20% of Israel's GDP and would entirely disappear if there was peace. But the incentive for war is far stronger for Palestinians.

Currently, despite everything, Palestine is ahead of Eastern Europe in economic development (by which I mean "go into a random apartment, what would you find?"). You would destroy that. Frankly, I find it hard to believe Palestinians would even match Egypt, Lebanon or Jordan in terms of economy any time soon.

I think if you asked Palestinians if they wanted war, victims and all, in trade for keeping what they have (as opposed to losing 75%), they would want war. Frankly, I'm pretty sure that's not exactly an exception. If, say, the French had the option to 4x their average income in trade for war, they'd start a war. No doubt in my mind about that.

Re: Federal agencies continue terminating all funding to Harvard

#129

Post by Jensson »

const_cast wrote: post #101
uhhhd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I know there were specific instances of Anti-Semitism, which were wrong and should be punished, but is there evidence Harvard didn't take action for those?" That is literally the allegation made in the lawsuit. And calling these protests merely "anti-Israel" is intentionally obtuse — it ignores the blatant anti-Jewish bigotry that was plainly on display.

> And calling these protests merely "anti-Israel" is intentionally obtuse No actually I think it's right on the money. Some vaguely brown people being very mad at Israel does not antisemitism make. Are they denying the Holocaust? Are they saying Jews should die? Or... are they saying Israel is committing a genocide? Are they blaming those particular jews running Israel? I think we all know it's almost entirely the la…

> Are they saying Jews should die?

Quite a lot of people are. Just because some don't doesn't mean that others aren't.

Re: Federal agencies continue terminating all funding to Harvard

#130

Post by slater »

uhhhd wrote: post #72
Braxton1980 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These protests were mostly against the state of Israel which isn't a violation of Title IX.I know there were specific instances of Anti-Semitism, which were wrong and should be punished, but is there evidence Harvard didn't take action for those? ----- My concern is that Anti-Zionism is being conflated with Anti-Semitism by the complainants in order to 1. Bolster their case wrongfully by increasing the number of inci…

"I know there were specific instances of Anti-Semitism, which were wrong and should be punished, but is there evidence Harvard didn't take action for those?" That is literally the allegation made in the lawsuit. And calling these protests merely "anti-Israel" is intentionally obtuse — it ignores the blatant anti-Jewish bigotry that was plainly on display.

Why is it so difficult to understand that one can be against the actions of the current Israeli government, without being a raging anti-semite?
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