There is a tendency to upvote comments you agree with, and downvote comments you disagree with. This has two ill effects: 1) Witty and popular viewpoints rise to the top, creating an atmosphere of superficial groupthink 2) People with unpopular (but insightful!) viewpoints may be discouraged from posting them. Given this, would the level of comments improve with the following change? Replace the up/down vote buttons…
Do you think that the label would change people's behavior in the long term, or would they end up just thinking of it as an upvote?
A Proposal To Improve Hacker News
181–190 of 193 posts
Re: A Proposal To Improve Hacker News
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Certainly some of the suggestions in the article have merit. Encouraging people to browse and vote on stuff in new would be good. But I agree with you. You don't fix human problems by adding technical controls. You fix human problems by adding technical measures designed to enable human controls. My proposal is relatively simple: figure out a high karma number (high enough few people have it) and allow these people t…
> "Technology needs to empower people to manage people. Software should not manage people." I agree, in a way. The only communities I have seen that associates numbers with human merit or trustworthiness are the ones populated largely by programmers. I feel this is telling. I always have low scores on these sites because I am just not motivated to contribute to them. While Jeff Atwood was on to something when he said…
Recently I have started to realize just how wrong this is, first in reading what others have written on IEEE spectrum on the so-called "Automation Paradox" and later internalizing that business systems usually treat people as integral components. Even if humans are relegated to a supervisory role it is important to given them enough to do to maintain the system and failure to do so in vehicles can result in air travel catastrophes or ships running aground. But the same holds true for every other field. There is such a thing as too much automation. Especially where we are dealing with social environments, like HN, that human touch is what is most important.
I think in this the first question is what should humans be doing, and the second is how can the computer system enable them to do it. Unfortunately engineers tend to forget the first question and so never reach the second.
Re: A Proposal To Improve Hacker News
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
> By the time it's written and posted, the site has moved on to the next new thing. I noticed this within the context of submissions and /new when I posted two blog posts of mine. Both posts were x000 words so minimum reading was over 3-5 minutes (average time on site was 1.5 minutes so not everyone read to the end). Both times neither posts got any upvotes until half way down the first page. They were surrounded by…
Perhaps votes should be weighted by the length of the submitted post. So, e.g., votes on short submissions are worth less than votes on full essays. Length of the post can be gamed, but I guess when that happens some form of information theoretic measure can be used as part of the weighting. I don't suppose this is already being done, is it?
Re: A Proposal To Improve Hacker News
#184How about this: charge a subscription fee to perform "destructive" actions on HN. This means posting comments and voting, including upvotes. Perhaps submitting stories can remain free — the paying users will determine the quality of the submissions. Some of us (used to) get a lot of value out of HN, so $10 or $50 a year would be a bargain.
Re: A Proposal To Improve Hacker News
#185I suggested this on a previous 'improve HN thread' (instigated by pg himself): Shutdown HN for a week or so and when reopening only let a certain quota in per day/week/month. Give priority to old and/or high karma members. I think that it will have the effect of churning the low quality membership. Perhaps allow these elected to elect others to enter "promised land".
Re: A Proposal To Improve Hacker News
#186While not all of us can spend the time to become an HN celebrity, there are many of us who have worked to get a high karma over time. HN should highlight the names of such users in purple, similar to the way it highlights newbies with green. PG tried that ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=467181 ), except with orange instead of purple.
Considering that the post is 3.5 years old, it makes me wonder if this problem has always been around. I wonder if this problem is cyclic and peaks at different times during the year or during certain events, such as summer or demo days.
It hasn't.
Re: A Proposal To Improve Hacker News
#187"It would be incredibly shocking to see a vitriolic HN comment coming from community leaders like tptacek" wat
While I agree that tptacek can be blunt to the point of cruelty, his arguments are well reasoned. I've also never seen him belittle the efforts of anybody (though I have seen him torch week reasoning). Even if I've disagreed and silently wished he would walk away from a thread, his contributions to HN are worse the bluntness.
Every forum has a small group of people who tend to lack social graces (or what passes for them online) but aren't just random assholes and are correct most of the time. As long as these people don't stray too personal too often, their contributions remain a net positive, IMO.
tptacek certainly fits into that, he just seemed like a funny choice to lead off with in that statement.
Re: A Proposal To Improve Hacker News
#188I suggested this on a previous 'improve HN thread' (instigated by pg himself): Shutdown HN for a week or so and when reopening only let a certain quota in per day/week/month. Give priority to old and/or high karma members. I think that it will have the effect of churning the low quality membership. Perhaps allow these elected to elect others to enter "promised land".
do you have a link to the thread?
Re: A Proposal To Improve Hacker News
#189Reward users for browsing "New" This is an interesting suggestion. I think of looking at new submissions as a kind of "service to the community"-- more specifically, to the community I want HN to be. If the front page is filled with links I don't value, then it's partly my fault if I've failed to upvote submissions I would rather see on the front page (this, of course, means browsing "new" is a reward unto itself, bu…
I'm someone else who refrains from commenting in order to protect my average karma. The thing is, that it isn't as irrational as you are making it out to be. Posts from users with higher average karma are sorted higher. Presumably you are posting because you want your post to be read. Either you want it to influence people or you want your question answered, or whatever. If you didn't want it to be read, you wouldn't…
Re: A Proposal To Improve Hacker News
#190Between the to bar and the content, for a week or so, place a centered link reading "A personal message about the future of HN from Paul Graham." Make it a thread maybe. Talk about the expectations of visitors. The need to build up, rather than drag down. To hold back the snarky comments, no matter how funny we find them. (And not to vote them up, no matter how funny we find them.) Talk about the virtues of reddit's…
Last time I ever make a post on my phone with a time limited edit function. Especially when sleepy, with Swype.