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Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

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Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#421

Post by dspillett »

calsy wrote: post #346
dspillett wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> aren't traveling with kids Just as much as many parents think having had kids is one of the proudest decisions (or happiest accidents) they have made, I think not having them is one of my best decisions, travelling is one of my many reasons for that, and I find the assumption from some parents that we should bend around their choice is a little presumptuous. Furthermore, ignoring various other definitions of better…

People had to tolerate your existence when your parents decided to bring you into this world. Why not show the same courtesy?

It isn't about tolerance for the kids. I have no objection to them being around¹, I don't begrudge my taxes going into education and relevant parts of the NHS for them.

My issue is the assumption, amongst many of those with kids, that everything should be optimised for people with kids, and anything that isn't is wrong. Because why would you want to optimise anything for other conditions in some cases?

>Why not show the same courtesy?

There is courtesy, and there is being expected to accept suboptimal things for myself so that everything can be optimal for other peoples' choices.

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[1] except perhaps the particularly uncontrolled ones, and I acknowledge that is sometimes unavoidable

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#422

Post by whamlastxmas »

camgunz wrote: post #383
janosett wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anywhere you could build a hotel you could also build more housing, so they pose the same issue. There is necessarily some tension between using space for permanent housing and using it for tourism / short term stays. Tourism often keeps a city's economy healthy, and having short term stays is important for those visiting even for non-tourism reasons (e.g. in town to visit family, for work, etc). The housing issue is…

> Anywhere you could build a hotel you could also build more housing Not really in practice. Ex: there's lots of hotels around airports and highways. Would anyone want to buy a house there? Definitely not. The markets and thus economics are totally different. > having short term stays is important for those visiting even for non-tourism reasons (e.g. in town to visit family, for work, etc) I don't know about "importa…

There is endless housing immediately by airports and highways. Like literally any major American airport or highway has tons of housing right next to it. Even in more rural areas people deliberately building a house right by the airport to make routine traveling easier

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#423

Post by n4r9 »

watwut wrote: post #309
n4r9 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids enforce a filter on what sort of fun you look for. Without kids, the bottom tenth percentile hotel experiences is often a few hours of bad sleep before escaping in the morning. With them, it's hours of tantrums, desperate searches for acceptable food or sleeping arrangements, and worrying for days afterwards about the effects of smoke, mold, dust etc on their health.

>and worrying for days afterwards about the effects of smoke, mold, dust etc on their health. I mean, that one is on you. It is possible to go on vacation even camping with kids without having anxiety attack over everything. Also, while some kids are difficult and kids are slow and certainly limit you, hours of tantrumps every holiday and impossibility to eat are not normal.

Sure. I've camped at a festival with a 1 yr old. Even stayed in a campervan at a festival when they were 6 weeks old. I'm just explaining why parents might prefer the safety of well-known chain hotels vs whatever "fun" darkwater was referring to.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#424

Post by fasthands9 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #130
fasthands9 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. In the long run there was never a way for individual hosts to compete with hotels on price. Hotels have economy of scale so of course they are going to be better bang for the buck in places where both are options. I think airbnb is still the better option in many situations - such as when you are willing to pay a premium to be in nature or you going on vacation with 6+ people. I don't really see how bette…

> there was never a way for individual hosts to compete with hotels on price. That way was to skirt laws around obtaining hotel permits and zoning and paying all the relevant hotel taxes and business insurance.

This is a very good point.

But I still think it was inevitable that cities caught up, either by restricting AirBNB units or giving in and allowing more hotel construction. There was no path for Airbnb to grow for 30 years without it ending up with basic econmics.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#425

Post by fasthands9 »

darkerside wrote: post #153
fasthands9 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. In the long run there was never a way for individual hosts to compete with hotels on price. Hotels have economy of scale so of course they are going to be better bang for the buck in places where both are options. I think airbnb is still the better option in many situations - such as when you are willing to pay a premium to be in nature or you going on vacation with 6+ people. I don't really see how bette…

The only way to compete against the economy of scale was the original thesis of AirBnB. People were renting out their primary homes to bring in an extra stream of income. It was never going to be mainstream profitable to buy a normal apartment and rent it out on AirBnB.

I don't think this is material to the user?

Say I own a house and I just rent it out a few weeks a year. Even if it's not a source of income I am still going to price it to the highest amount that people are willing to pay.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#426

Post by devoutsalsa »

levocardia wrote: post #139

Maybe I'm in the minority but I've generally had very good -- or at least, "good as I expected" -- experiences at AirBnbs, even recently. Sometimes I've stayed with rich friends who book nice places, and the experience is, as expected, very nice. Many other times I have stayed at bottom-of-the-barrel places, which were, as expected, bottom of the barrel flophouses. But tolerably so, and true to the advertisement (fun…

I was a digital nomad for 4 years. The ability to do your own laundry is why I prefer an Airbnb over hotel, especially when you’re only living out of carryon luggage with a few days of clothing. Relying on hotel laundry is hard to time and is not cheap.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#427

Post by mattzito »

some_random wrote: post #418

There are two ways of looking at Airbnb, as a hotel substitute or as a resort substitute. It has a very hard time competing with hotels, as others have stated there are advantages but overall an airbnb is going to be worse and/or more expensive. BUT the resort substitute is where it is a lot more competitive, and this whole experience thing seems like a good way to lean into that element.

Are we talking about the same Airbnb? When I think of resorts, I think of staff, bars, restaurants, activities, often all inclusive, and often catered to my desired demographic (adults only, family friendly, etc.)

When I think of Airbnb, I think of an apartment with a pool in the Caribbean, where I have to hunt around to figure out the best places to eat, or cook myself.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#428

Post by BobaFloutist »

timr wrote: post #355
hoseyor wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mind elaboration on at least what region of the world you are talking about? I think this whole main thread is suffering from the globalism v diversity collision; we are a global group of people trying to compare regionally, nationally, local, or even personal experiences that differ so widely that it regresses into noise. My experience is that e.g. it used to be a lot easier in the USA to find hotels that eve…

> My experience is that e.g. it used to be a lot easier in the USA to find hotels that even just had a kitchenette or even a pay to wash “laundromat” (which is what I assume you are referring to), but maybe that is also just my personal experience. But my sense is that those offerings have been in stark decline especially over the last decades, and especially outside of the inland western half of the country that in…

Sorry, Embassy Suites is a "low-end" chain??

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#429

Post by jrowen »

ghaff wrote: post #419
jrowen wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core value prop of Airbnb is (or should be) to provide a different experience than a hotel. It may have been "cheaper than a hotel" at one point and idk what the numbers are on how people are using it but in my experience it excels for larger groups or for people just looking for a more house-like experience than a hotel. Being able to stay in a nice house with a bunch of friends in any city is an amazing…

Which has been VRBO to a large degree. Not sure how common that is for Airbnb as a use case. A lot of what I see is looking for a cheaper room.

Anecdotally I've never heard anyone say "VRBO." Maybe they are using it but just saying "yeah we stayed in an Airbnb" kind of like if you use Lyft but call it Uber cause that's the more common noun.

So I feel like they did successfully establish themselves as the noun for that kind of thing, which to me speaks to the power of the idea and the marketplace they created because the name doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

But overall I think the hotel room market is just much larger than the "boutique group stay" market so they have to maintain position as a direct hotel competitor (but I think it is an issue vis-a-vis people complaining here about things like having to coordinate with an individual even though they willingly chose that route).

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#430

Post by timr »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #428
timr wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My experience is that e.g. it used to be a lot easier in the USA to find hotels that even just had a kitchenette or even a pay to wash “laundromat” (which is what I assume you are referring to), but maybe that is also just my personal experience. But my sense is that those offerings have been in stark decline especially over the last decades, and especially outside of the inland western half of the country that in…

Sorry, Embassy Suites is a "low-end" chain??

No, I just was typing fast and grouped everything together I could think of. Embassy Suites is one of the OG "suite" chains that I'd characterize as "formerly high end, maybe mid-level right now", but YMMV.
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