Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Can you give me an example of a prominent American liberal who said the US was winning too many Olympic medals?
Otherwise it is just a Strawman argument
Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation
131–140 of 336 posts
Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Other than, say, the GPS on your phone, the internet that you're posting on, or anything like that--you want to know what government-funded basic science has done to benefit you lately, not any of these decade-long timeline projects that are best funded by institutions with long time horizons, such as governments. Yes, we must have results that are brought to market this quarter, so the government-funded research jus…
If my memory serves me correctly, the ones you mentioned were DARPA projects. Which is defense arm - and AFAIK defense budget is not being cut. I am not against government spending for dominance but I am just simply asking a question when the deficit spending is high and soon the line item for interest expense is greater than the defense budget, is dominance still more of a concern than say, I don't know, Govt unable…
You are posting in a thread about the NSF. The very least you could do is be informed about what the NSF actually does and has funded before asking questions.
Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
>All it will do is take government out of the equation. The middle-class professional scientist is an invention of post-war governments to create an engine of progress. Pre-war science was a gentleman's hobby, funded by the bored rich. Corporations largely do not perform any basic science and simply reap ideas sown by academics and bring those ideas to market. Without government funding of basic science the engine of…
> Corporations largely do not perform any basic science and simply reap ideas sown by academics and bring those ideas to market. Without government funding of basic science the engine of progress stops. No new discoveries or new scientists, at least not in the US. Does Google Brain and their paper that birthed all these LLMs fit this description?
Standing on the shoulders of giants, the growth LLMs is built on a foundation of government funded academic training and research without which it would not have been possible. Also, I didn't say there is no corporate basic research. Things like Bell Labs and googleX have existed but they are the exception and not the rule and are dependent on a company being highly lucrative and culturally open to basic research. Certainly not reliable as a primary source of funding and almost completely lacking in training.
Even something like the latest explosion in LLMs is applied science and profit motivated.
Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation
#134Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMHO America's success as a scientific powerhouse had more to do with the research infrastructure spun up to win the war than Nazi scientists afterwards.
Honestly way more with just being the one super power standing after the war. We were basically untouched, even accounting for dead and wounded we only lost ~1 million people and practically zero manufacturing infrastructure so we came out of the war roaring and flush with cash. That catapulted the US to where it has been for the whole of the time since but a lot of people seem to have believed we were owed that or e…
This feels revisionist to me. It was not accidental. The US had the booming wartime economy, AND it had a State department that went at solidifying global influence. Essentially the "greatest generation" locked in America's situation, and doubled down on cultural and economic dominance.
The combination of state, industry and WMF-type loans extended American power globally. It was a very very good time to be American. This is the core of the "Great Again" part of the slogan. Boomers remember this America and want the growth, wealth and dominance back.
Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation
#136As a federal contractor within NIH, I can tell you that the damage has already been done to the United States' dominance in science. Even if every action taken by current administration is reversed, the uncertainty for foreign scientists is too much. Many that I have spoken to are looking for their exit from either gov or academic research, or looking to leave the United States completely. The Trump admins cuts are n…
> the damage has already been done to the United States' dominance in science Why should my tax dollar subsidize for the dominance of US in science? How has US dominance in science helped the average American taxpayer in last decade other than funneling billions to arms or pharma industry or funding academians being out of touch with the rest of the country?
> Why should my tax dollar subsidize for the dominance of US in science?
This is a fair question.
For one thing, the US dominance in science has allowed us to dominate many profitable products and new industries that were derived from that science. I'm not sure I believe the commonly-given estimate that every $1 spent on basic research yields $8-20 in economic return, but I do believe that the return has been positive.
If other countries become the preferred target for the best and the brightest scientists then the US is unlikely to continue to dominate new research-dependent industries as we did for the last ~4 generations.
I don't necessarily think this is bad for the world -- concentrating too much wealth, talent, and power in one country has had corrosive effects. But this decline may ultimately be bad for the average US resident, even if their taxes go down.
> other than funneling billions to arms industry?
As someone who has worked on several military research projects, for better or worse my sense so far is that US military research budgets will be the only ones to come out of this administration largely unscathed.
Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation
#137Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation
#138As a federal contractor within NIH, I can tell you that the damage has already been done to the United States' dominance in science. Even if every action taken by current administration is reversed, the uncertainty for foreign scientists is too much. Many that I have spoken to are looking for their exit from either gov or academic research, or looking to leave the United States completely. The Trump admins cuts are n…
You are entirely correct. The massive investment in science (and the culture of valuing scientific knowledge) that started with the cold war is coming to an end. It turns out that destruction is far easier to do than creation. I was a PhD student in machine learning during the first Trump administration, and even then things were on very shaky grounds. The Muslim ban alone hit really hard, and was a boon for research…
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Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Parent comment says "the opportunity created by Nazi ideological purges of scientists" , which is not the same as "Nazi scientists". Did you see the "Oppenheimer" movie? Check the real physicists depicted working on the Manhattan project. A large number of them were European Jews who left before or during the war. Einstein, Teller, Szilard, Hornig. Even some others left Europe because of this: Niels Bohr (Jewish Moth…
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You talk about this like it's an accident almost. It was a considered Federal policy to brain drain as hard as possible.
Anecdotally, I too worry about the influx of the dirty Irish into our borders, stealing good jobs and spreading their Irish culture. Oh, sorry, I forgot it's not 1940. In my opinion, America has a strong, strong culture -- brain drained scientist's kids in general look pretty integrated to me, at least the ones I know.
Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Parent comment says "the opportunity created by Nazi ideological purges of scientists" , which is not the same as "Nazi scientists". Did you see the "Oppenheimer" movie? Check the real physicists depicted working on the Manhattan project. A large number of them were European Jews who left before or during the war. Einstein, Teller, Szilard, Hornig. Even some others left Europe because of this: Niels Bohr (Jewish Moth…
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> These are markedly distinct career paths from the ones taken by homegrown Jews,
Actually "Oppenheimer" the movie also supplies examples of two very different New York Jewish backgrounds:
J Robert Oppenheimer, from an affluent, non-religious family - with an Upper West side apartment and a summer vacation home on Long Island. His father came to the USA as a teenager, and prospered in business.
Isidor Isaac Rabi, from an orthodox, Yiddish-speaking family living in a two-room apartment on the Lower East Side. He was born shortly before the family came to the USA.