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Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

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Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#211

Post by tough »

bigyabai wrote: post #62
tough wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you might like https://github.com/philocalyst/infat to change the mimetypes associations

I might prefer respectful default apps that delight the user and don't cost anything more than what I paid for at checkout. MacOS isn't for me, I guess.

I hear you, but 10y of MacOS usage habit will make that to you, it's easier for me to work around MacOS quirks and Apple's authoritarianism than it is to try and get a Linux distro I like to work perfectly for me for more than 6 months, or worse, go back to win

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#212

Post by MiddleEndian »

bigyabai wrote: post #53
nmgycombinator wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what do you find annoying about it?

Oh god, don't get me started... 1. iCloud nags never go away if you don't log into iCloud 2. Apple Music is just an advertisement by default and "conveniently" opens every sound file mimetype 3. Functionally useless subscription slopware like AppleTV+ comes installed by-default for no reason 4. Package management is a colossal clusterfuck that can't even enforce package parity across system architectures 5. Apple sti…

Sometimes I consider looking switching back to MacOS (left because OS X 10.7 was becoming too much like iOS and I don't like the idea of apps having to be signed and/or in an app store) and holy shit I am glad I left.

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#215

Post by throwaway290 »

mike_hearn wrote: post #207
throwaway290 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you install an app in ~/Applications, it can auto update without root, but any sus code can overwrite it without root rights too

Nope, that was fixed several releases back. macOS doesn't use the concept of a root user for years. It's there in the APIs for backwards compatibility but the actual enforced permission model is nothing like UNIX. 1. Apps can't tamper with each others files. Try writing an app that writes to another app's bundle, even if it's in $HOME, and you'll find you can't. One way to test this quickly is to ensure that your ter…

I think you are wrong about Unix model only existing for compatibility

1. OK, so it requires terminal to have some entitlement first I guess. If you needed to grep some app's bundle in the past you probably gave it already.

2. many apps ask for admin user/password when updating. including say Docker. some developer software specifically says "we ask you this because we need to sudo"

stuff under SIP I think includes some stock apps, some top level /bin and the like, but everything else is fair game for root. Which is a lot. If you use MacPorts then all of that is under sudo

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#217

Post by trollbridge »

cyral wrote: post #112
EGreg wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just told you how… it would show your special icon or phrase inside so you’d confirm it before you typed anything. The phrase would be managed through a system screen, like a login screen

Problem is most users will not care or understand it. Someone will spoof the dialog without the special icon or phrase and users would still enter the password.

Banks did this years ago, but a few surveys showed nobody actually checked for their key phrase or image.

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#218

Post by Der_Einzige »

mike_hearn wrote: post #205
josephg wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These experiences have been why I’ve not a big fan of “capabilities” as a concept. The UX around them is awful, and almost has to be. I don't think the UX has to be awful. The problem is just that they're kinda half baked on macos, and bolted on, and not really a first class citizen. There's no reason you couldn't have: - A preferences dialog showing which long-lived capabilities you've granted to which application…

macOS already has the first UI. It's not just for accessibility, the Privacy & Security pane lists permissions in depth. macOS doesn't show explanations because apps can come from outside the App Store meaning nobody is checking that the explanation is actually true, but users would reasonably assume someone has checked it. Ditto for the explanation of what happens if you say no. Fake entries would just be a very wei…

Why do damage control for free for tech companies when you can get paid to save lives with your damage control skills in somewhere like the navy?

More seriously, I will never surrender to this stupid idea that "the app store" or "walled gardens" are good. They are not and simply being on the app store is not a signal of trust for anything at all.

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#219

Post by Klonoar »

mike_hearn wrote: post #206
Klonoar wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple themselves have a quirk in some cases where apps that aren’t in an Applications folder get mounted as read-only. Granted I haven’t seen the bug in awhile, but I also never saw acknowledgement of it being fixed so…

That's not a bug, it's a security feature (hack?) called translocation. It happens if you run an app that was downloaded without moving it first using the Finder.

I know what the feature is called.

I would not consider something so confusing to the end user to be a security feature. This is a bug, or you could use the label "broken".

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#220

Post by HnUser12 »

cypherpunks01 wrote: post #78

Just recently learned I should be installing mac apps into my home directory Applications, not the system Applications (as every single app installer suggests). Of course, only makes sense for a single-user machine. If I downgrade myself to a non-admin user, and install apps into my home Applications, then I'm not bothered by permissions requests from apps to update themselves. Almost all of them can just do it, on t…

Oh interesting, thank you! I wonder doing this will fix the issue where slack repeatedly asks admin password for updating.
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