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Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

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Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#491

Post by brabel »

Thorrez wrote: post #451
gerdesj wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excessive horning (made up word) is not just a Vietnamese thing. Italy is probably Europe's worst offender, with Greece a close contender. I'm not so familiar with Asia, but I get the impression that the entirety of Indian and most of Chinese drivers feel the need to lean on the horn with gay abandon (fnarr). In Britain the horn is generally reserved for "fuck that was close: I think you are a bit of a tosser" or "yo…

Huh, I drove in Italy for a week and a half and didn't notice excessive honking. I did notice tons and tons of tailgating.

Italy is really 2 countries, north and south are quite distinct.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#492

Post by stef25 »

gerdesj wrote: post #321
latchkey wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I wish they would install tiny horn buttons on all the vehicles in Vietnam! In that country, the horn is a method of communication, much to the ire of literally everyone trying to exist.

Excessive horning (made up word) is not just a Vietnamese thing. Italy is probably Europe's worst offender, with Greece a close contender. I'm not so familiar with Asia, but I get the impression that the entirety of Indian and most of Chinese drivers feel the need to lean on the horn with gay abandon (fnarr). In Britain the horn is generally reserved for "fuck that was close: I think you are a bit of a tosser" or "yo…

In Asia it's mainly used to signal your presence, like when you're overtaking someone. Just a little tap of the horn. Just the fact that you hear it say in the right corner behind you will make you not swerve in that direction. It's almost subconscious and really does improve safety imho. You can't possibly visually scan for all vehicles around you.

The result of course is that there's a non stop cacophony, in places like Hanoi it REALLY gets to you after a while.

Here in EU if someone honks at you it's considered rude and will make me really react with wtf is your problem. Out in Asia it's completely normal.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#493

Post by [deleted] »

timewizard wrote: post #179
HPsquared wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are safety standards for automobile software: ISO 26262. Software for steering or braking systems is of high quality. It's not the same team that does the infotainment.

> ISO 26262. That is a piece of paper. > Software for steering or braking systems is of high quality. There's literally no way for me to know that before I trust my life with it.

[deleted]

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#494

Post by cornholio »

mikepurvis wrote: post #353
acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

I’m in a loaner 2025 Volvo right now and I’ve honestly been pleasantly surprised with the Android Auto setup. I thought I’d never again use anything other than phone projection, but nope — I can install Google Maps and Spotify and sign into both, and then my profiles and everything are right there including search history, and it’s actually more seamless and integrated than switching between CarPlay and the native/ou…

Give it five years and it will be guaranteed garbage. Spotify will refuse to run on an unsupported older Android without the latest DRM API, while Google Maps will crash your system randomly, requiring you to disconnect the car battery to jumpstart it again. Volvo will offer you an upgrade of their proprietary device at the low price of $1899.

It's puzzling to see this push for general computing on devices that need to far outlast the typical release cycle of GC devices. There is nothing good that can come out of installing Android in your TV, fridge, let alone a - for fuck's sake! - a car.

If your consumer hardware needs to last for decades, then the core functionality and automation should be provided by sturdy embedded computers that are self-contained and do not require any kind of network access or regular updates, while the general computing functions functions should be provided by the user's own device or a replaceable/upgradable computer with a standardized interface.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#495

Post by jmb99 »

perlgeek wrote: post #123
bluGill wrote: post #71

Why does your car need an internet connection? I don't use the built in maps since my phone has a map and a connection. what is the killer app of a connected car? businesses might want to watch their fleet but does anyone else care

Some features I've found useful: * giving me the current fuel and battery levels in the app * giving me an ETA on when charging is finished * locating my car * telling me if the car has been sitting there for a few minutes with ignition off but doors unlocked, giving me the option to lock them remotely * telling me about open windows, giving me the option to close them remotely None of them is really crucial, but for…

> giving me the current fuel and battery levels in the app

When is this actually useful? In the ~12 years I’ve been driving, I’ve never needed to know the fuel level of a car when I’m not in it. I guess maybe if I’m planning a road trip and need to know if I’m going to have to stop for gas before I leave? But I’ll figure that out when I get in to leave and I’m probably not leaving with > locating my car

Again, never once have I not known where my car was. I think my phone keeps track of where I park too already? But I’ve never needed that feature. I guess if it’s stolen and the thieves don’t know how to disable this, it could potentially be useful for insurance/police.

> telling me about open windows, giving me the option to close them remotely

This could be useful. I’ve never left windows open by accident before, but I have left them open on purpose - if there were an automatic notification when this happens, I’d probably just eventually turn it off to reduce the irritation from false positives, and then not be notified if I ever left them open by accident.

> remote door un/locking

I had a Lincoln that had this feature, while I was working as a reverse engineer/pentester. Took me ~45 minutes to be able to send an unlock request to the car, unauthenticated, and have it open the doors, over the internet. Pretty sure that’s never been fixed (at least, it hadn’t been when I got rid of the car - model year 2016, which was identical to the 2013s, and I got rid of it in 2022). Needless to say, not a fan of that kind of “feature.”

I could see charging ETA being useful if multiple people are using the same car and for whatever reason can’t communicate that sort of thing with each other, and don’t have a feel for how long charging takes. (I’ve never owned an EV, but I imagine that you plug it in when you get home, and then it’s ready for you in the morning, so I don’t really know what the use case for knowing the ETA is in that case. Maybe if you’ve been driving around all day and need to make a long drive in the evening? I still assume you’d know how long it’ll take to charge when you plug it in though. And if you're at a fast charger, don’t they have a screen that gives you the ETA when you plug it in? I’ve only used one before, but it did that, and it was accurate to within 30 seconds, so I’m not too sure how useful it would be to have the ETA on your phone in that case either.)

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#496

Post by jabl »

bluGill wrote: post #363
gerdesj wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excessive horning (made up word) is not just a Vietnamese thing. Italy is probably Europe's worst offender, with Greece a close contender. I'm not so familiar with Asia, but I get the impression that the entirety of Indian and most of Chinese drivers feel the need to lean on the horn with gay abandon (fnarr). In Britain the horn is generally reserved for "fuck that was close: I think you are a bit of a tosser" or "yo…

In india if you hit someone after sounding your horn you are not at fault as you gave warning and they didn't move. (It is far more complex than that but as always the real truth is too complex for a comment box - if you are trying to drive safe it is close enough, but this isn't a license to murder), As a result all drives will honk their own if there is any possibility someone might cross in front of them. India is…

Was something like 20 years since I was in India, but IIRC at least back then they didn't have a "priority to the right" traffic rule, but rather some kind of "the one who first honks has priority". Traveling in a taxi felt suicidal, drivers just honked when approaching an intersection and continued blithely.

Based on a quick googling, this seems to no more be the case, and there is a 'priority to the right" rule.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#497

Post by gmueckl »

nyarlathotep_ wrote: post #372
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! But it's also obvious that the industry doesn't have a prayer to ever reform. Stuck between proprietary and NDA's chips everywhere, using proprietary and NDA's toolchains and development kits, to product proprietary DRM'ed products. This is an industry that is about as far from the light of science & enlightenment as it is possible to get, ensnared as deeply in the entangling anti-human anti-science Intellectual…

I can find 1000s of posts or blogs or whatever on every React nuance, Rust thing, LLM trend, or whatever, but nothing even describing what "real" embedded programming looks like in any fashion (I'm not counting blinking an Arduino LED here). What does writing ABS module software look like? I'd actually love to know--it's not an area where you can "vibe code" your way to a 'working' product.

Can't speak for cars specifically, but other software built to comparable standards requires a super rigorous process including detailed specs, risk analysis and mitigation, detailed design, comprehensive automated and manual testing against the soec including test coverage, tons of documentation on everything and finally a third party certification on everything.

The process is so far removed from typical web and business slop that it's an entirely different world of its own.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#498

Post by jmb99 »

tacker2000 wrote: post #74
bluGill wrote: post #71

Why does your car need an internet connection? I don't use the built in maps since my phone has a map and a connection. what is the killer app of a connected car? businesses might want to watch their fleet but does anyone else care

to be honest, we are now at the stage where everything that CAN get an internet connection, WILL get one eventually. Be it your god damn dryer or fridge or lawnmower...

Just bought a fridge. It was very difficult to find one with normal doors, a freeze door (not drawer), no stupid water or ice-making gizmos, and no wifi. There was literally one single choice in the dimensions I needed, unless I spent 6x as much on a European import.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#499

Post by donperignon »

pnw wrote: post #228
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #48

Remove the LTE chip and all functionality related to ads, support wireless CarPlay and android auto, and use physical buttons. You’ll win every award in the industry.

Removing LTE would remove key features that drivers want, including real time traffic updates, remote controls and streaming media? What's your objection to LTE?

Beware connectivity in cars, it is not for your good, it’s all about telemetry and profiling.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#500

Post by davkan »

This stuff is exhausting, I’ve never been happier to drive a 93 manual than hearing about infotainment systems.

I recently purchased a new bike which has electronic shifting and while it performs better than and and requires less tuning, I honestly miss the pure simplicity and connectedness of a cable actuated derailleur.

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