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Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

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Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#321

Post by gerdesj »

latchkey wrote: post #297
tw04 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s always been the case with Tesla. I still have no idea how the yoke with no progressive steering and a tiny button for a horn ever passed any sanity check. Not to mention the NHTSA.

Oh, I wish they would install tiny horn buttons on all the vehicles in Vietnam! In that country, the horn is a method of communication, much to the ire of literally everyone trying to exist.

Excessive horning (made up word) is not just a Vietnamese thing. Italy is probably Europe's worst offender, with Greece a close contender.

I'm not so familiar with Asia, but I get the impression that the entirety of Indian and most of Chinese drivers feel the need to lean on the horn with gay abandon (fnarr).

In Britain the horn is generally reserved for "fuck that was close: I think you are a bit of a tosser" or "you are driving a German car and seem to have have no indicators".

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#322

Post by johnbellone »

timewizard wrote: post #175
ericmay wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s interesting - what vehicles require you to do that? I know the usual suspect is the Tesla, which I have, but I never have to navigate through menus to change the temperature while driving. As an aside a lot of people like to levy criticism on the infotainment screens which I think is very well deserved, but then people text and drive, watch YouTube videos, and do all sorts of crazy things too. Instead of levyi…

Ford SYNC. https://pictures.dealer.com/s/surprisefordvtg/0292/10a2adba8... It's like a window into hell.

Just bought a 2022 Mustang to avoid the 2024-2025 series for SYNC 4 and the removal of physical buttons. Car is nice but can’t get past the whole digital set up.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#323

Post by Gigachad »

averageRoyalty wrote: post #213
acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

I understand the concept, but the question I have is why? These companies have huge wallets, and can surely scoop up a smaller automative microcontroller company and bring it in-house? It seems like a problem than enough money could solve quickly, but they've been doing horribly at this for decades now.

The talent might not exist. Software development has been seen as the preferable career over electrical engineering for a long time now.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#324

Post by seanmcdirmid »

gerdesj wrote: post #321
latchkey wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I wish they would install tiny horn buttons on all the vehicles in Vietnam! In that country, the horn is a method of communication, much to the ire of literally everyone trying to exist.

Excessive horning (made up word) is not just a Vietnamese thing. Italy is probably Europe's worst offender, with Greece a close contender. I'm not so familiar with Asia, but I get the impression that the entirety of Indian and most of Chinese drivers feel the need to lean on the horn with gay abandon (fnarr). In Britain the horn is generally reserved for "fuck that was close: I think you are a bit of a tosser" or "yo…

Horns were disabled in Chongqing at least a couple of decades ago. I’m not sure what it’s like now though, but the government in China can and will deal with excessive horning using means we wouldn’t consider in the west.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#325

Post by johnbellone »

gkhartman wrote: post #197
timewizard wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford SYNC. https://pictures.dealer.com/s/surprisefordvtg/0292/10a2adba8... It's like a window into hell.

As a Linux fan and owner of a Sync 1.0 vehicle I feel your pain. I want to replace it with something aftermarket, but the cost of a dash kit is pretty steep if you want one of decent quality. I reboot it weekly, which takes minutes, so it doesn't freeze during the week. I'm guessing there's memory leak that takes a while to accumulate.

Original SYNC was actually embedded version of Windows. It’s running QNX now and Android for future versions.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#326

Post by Gigachad »

ericmay wrote: post #155
phyzix5761 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical buttons are a huge need. Its so distracting navigating through screens to change the temperature while driving.

That’s interesting - what vehicles require you to do that? I know the usual suspect is the Tesla, which I have, but I never have to navigate through menus to change the temperature while driving. As an aside a lot of people like to levy criticism on the infotainment screens which I think is very well deserved, but then people text and drive, watch YouTube videos, and do all sorts of crazy things too. Instead of levyi…

We rented a BMW which had all climate settings on a touch screen. That touch screen crashed once and we couldn't turn the air con off without trying to reboot the car which isn't exactly trivial since there isn't any obvious off button.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#327

Post by whatever1 »

averageRoyalty wrote: post #213
acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

I understand the concept, but the question I have is why? These companies have huge wallets, and can surely scoop up a smaller automative microcontroller company and bring it in-house? It seems like a problem than enough money could solve quickly, but they've been doing horribly at this for decades now.

The answer is that current car platforms were designed with flexibility as first goal.

Car companies realized early on they could outsource component development and production to 3rd parties and they could make them bid each other to further lower the prices.

So their platforms were optimized to be able to swap component vendors very easily (to achieve lowest costs).

Of course the vendors are not 100% interchangeable and building a platform to accommodate everyone has to make sacrifices.Aka target the least common denominator across all vendors.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#328

Post by bsder »

averageRoyalty wrote: post #213
acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

I understand the concept, but the question I have is why? These companies have huge wallets, and can surely scoop up a smaller automative microcontroller company and bring it in-house? It seems like a problem than enough money could solve quickly, but they've been doing horribly at this for decades now.

Because the auto companies outsource everything, lay the risk onto the outsourced companies and expect that some significant percentage of them will go bankrupt every year.

With that kind of adversarial relationship, you are never getting anything above the barest minimum of competence.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#329

Post by liveoneggs »

whatever1 wrote: post #327
averageRoyalty wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the concept, but the question I have is why? These companies have huge wallets, and can surely scoop up a smaller automative microcontroller company and bring it in-house? It seems like a problem than enough money could solve quickly, but they've been doing horribly at this for decades now.

The answer is that current car platforms were designed with flexibility as first goal. Car companies realized early on they could outsource component development and production to 3rd parties and they could make them bid each other to further lower the prices. So their platforms were optimized to be able to swap component vendors very easily (to achieve lowest costs). Of course the vendors are not 100% interchangeabl…

too bad computers aren't spark plugs

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#330

Post by Nursie »

pnw wrote: post #263
tomrod wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment you pick a non-techie off the street and help them see the amount of data collection occurring, you have another person who proves the assumption. It's not a huge assumption. No one likes ads, no one likes their data being collected. The sooner insurance and car companies understand that, the sooner they get out of the maelstrom of false revenue from ad- and spy-ware programs.

What percentage of consumers do you think consider privacy as a feature in their car purchasing decision? The only data I can find relates to Chinese vehicles which shows some concerns, but that's understandable given they are built by a foreign adversary. https://www.autopacific.com/autopacific-insights/2024/5/22/y...

> What percentage of consumers do you think consider privacy as a feature in their car purchasing decision?

What percent of users understand how much data is being collected about them?

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