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Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

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Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#311

Post by jankcorn »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #130

It's not just about the software but about the hardware architecture of the car. Legacy manufacturers are coming from a situation where they are integrating hardware and software from a lot of different suppliers. This makes upgrading the car a very tedious process and slows down the process of getting suppliers to fix issues and provide new firmware in a timely fashion. It's worse for them because they often want to…

Legacy corporations have a very hard time incorporating fundamental technology shifts (moving from ICE engine/drivetrain dominant designs to software dominance). They walk into the future looking backward, unable to identify/vet the team skills needed going forward, leading to silly hacks like: 1) hire from "big s/w companies", 2) pay high salaries to poorly vetted people, 3) adopt all the new fashionable buzzwords like "software defined vehicle", 4) force new teams every inch of the way to justify design choices to mediocre legacy management.

The only formula I know that works is "hire good people and listen to them". From experience, the only way legacy companies can do this is acquire and/or seriously partner with companies that have established a track record in what you need (even if it is only a couple of years, as long as they are _delivering product_).

As software effectiveness/innovation speed/productivity continue to increasingly crush legacy industries, it is extraordinarily frustrating to see how hard it is to make (seemingly simple!) changes.

p.s.: nice to see you Jilles! :-)

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#312

Post by typewithrhythm »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #285
typewithrhythm wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all, a high end car will use an entirely different architecture to a mid/low end... When you target a certain feature set it can make sense to use one big central processor, for lower end things it's more sensible to use limited smart sensors (from multiple vendors, for absolute cost minimums). And it's generally not cost effective to move an old high trim platform down range due to changes in hardware and reg…

What you mean by different architecture here? I've never seen a situation where manufacturers choose fundamentally different architectures between price points on the same platform. I feel like I'm misunderstanding what you mean though.

Someone like Ford for example will have several software platforms, some for low cost vehicles, some high, some that are adaptable between trim levels.

So as you go up in features on some model "the BigTruk" you might be going through variations of one sw platform, or jumping between platforms.

Some have several platforms for high and low cost based on centralised vs distributed, so for example an s class will not have much software or hardware shared with an a class.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#313

Post by majormajor »

joezydeco wrote: post #103
gnopgnip wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no licensing fees or royalties for CarPlay or android auto. It does cost time/money to integrate, like any feature

Can you implement CarPlay now without the MFI chip?

AFAICT USB-C iPhones don't have the same restrictions as lightning ones - https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/15/iphone-15-usb-c-port-compatib...

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#315

Post by dansiemens »

pixl97 wrote: post #253
omega3 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you can not just roll all your own electronics in a year. Why? A year is a long time and it's a solved problem. In any case even if you allow the "a year is not enough" argument why didn't they start 5 years ago?

Because they are not electronics companies, and further more they are terrible integration companies. Unless the top of the company comes in and starts chopping every head that gets in the way of the new paradigm then it just ends up in locked up meetings for years of people that don't want to change. Electronics integration isn't the problem, the people currently there are.

Precisely, such a change represents substantial risk in an incredibly risk-averse industry. People at orgs in such industries are in constant CYA mode, looking to point responsibility (and therefore blame) to anyone else.

The time to go and implement such a change probably pales in comparison to the amount of time spent in meetings getting people to agree to make the change.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#316

Post by pabs3 »

Hobadee wrote: post #102

I've long wondered why no car manufacturer has gone for an open source model. Certain things should absolutely be locked down (for example, the airbags and other critical safety features) but there is absolutely no reason the HVAC and Infotainment system need to be closed source. Open it up and let hackers go crazy, then just "borrow" the best options out there for next year's model and everyone wins!

Apparently there are folks working on converting ICE vehicles to EV, using open source and reverse engineering to integrate discarded proprietary EV components (battery, motor, inverter etc).

https://openinverter.org/ https://youtube.com/@evbmw https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43898280

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#317

Post by shostack »

anon7000 wrote: post #142
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #48

Remove the LTE chip and all functionality related to ads, support wireless CarPlay and android auto, and use physical buttons. You’ll win every award in the industry.

Mazda has done a great job at this so far, very minimal screen which automatically just shows CarPlay, and buttons for all the normal car stuff, which also isn’t overdone. The only flaw is the scroll wheel to interact with the screen, which is just slightly too clunky in apps with too many options

Generally agree but they are laying the path to enshitification. You see you can get turn by turn directions on the HUD, but only through their app where they want you to pay $10/mo for the privilege. Same for inputting addresses into their crappy nav system.

So I only use Google maps with Android Auto now, but cannot put the turn by turn display on. Also, who knows what telemetry Mazda is sending home on me without me knowing or wanting them to. Probably selling it to data brokers.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#318

Post by whatever1 »

acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

This also works the opposite way. If the software roadmap does not inform the hardware requirements, then minimization of the bill of materials will lead to the selection of crappy hardware chips.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#319

Post by DidYaWipe »

lmpdev wrote: post #299
DidYaWipe wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is an "MMI box?"

Multimedia Interface?

Thanks. Seems to be some kind of Audi-specific branding.

No wonder these clowns still can't put together a car radio that works reliably, let alone an automotive interconnect system; they're still using the term "multimedia." Welcome to CD-ROMs, circa 1994.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#320

Post by otterley »

neild wrote: post #258
deergomoo wrote: post #231

I want a 7-10” central display that spends 99% of its time showing CarPlay but also has a radio if I need it, the backup camera when I’m in reverse, and lets me change a couple of settings for convenience features like auto locking etc. Everything else can be dials, knobs, and buttons. My Mazda3 is perfect for this and I’m quite sad that I’m almost certainly not going to be able to find anything like it by the time I…

I have a 2024 Kia EV6, and this is pretty much what it does: Central screen displays CarPlay, backup camera, and infrequently-used settings controls, dials and knobs for most things, one secondary touchbar (row of buttons, but it’s really a touchscreen so the buttons can change) for climate controls. Pretty much perfect, although only wired CarPlay. (The 2025 models apparently have wireless.)

You can get tiny USB dongles that convert wired CarPlay to wireless. I bought one and adore it! https://www.geekbuying.com/item/AB019B-Wireless-CarPlay-Adap...
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