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Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

insideevs.com

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Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#221

Post by wbl »

hedora wrote: post #207
SoftTalker wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people still don’t want or can’t really afford EVs given their limitations. I’d say it’s the majority where I live. I directly know only one person who has a full EV (not a hybrid). I don’t think the Japanese automakers have squandered anything, yet.

We paid maybe a $10K premium for a used EV truck. It gets 2mi/kWh. Most parts of the country are paying ~ $0.125 per kWh, so that’s &0.06 of a dollar in electricity per mile. A comparable truck gets 18mpg mixed. At $3/gallon, that’s $0.16 per mile. So, the price premium pays back after 100K miles. That’s comparable to milage driven during a long car loan. I ignored oil changes, tax breaks on used cars, and picked the…

For commuter with charging access at office or home EV makes sense. For me making 300+ mile round trips with no charging infra (pull in at the gas station in the foothills) and low overall mileage EV is trickier.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#222

Post by PLenz »

DragonStrength wrote: post #192
ericmay wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s interesting - what vehicles require you to do that? I know the usual suspect is the Tesla, which I have, but I never have to navigate through menus to change the temperature while driving. As an aside a lot of people like to levy criticism on the infotainment screens which I think is very well deserved, but then people text and drive, watch YouTube videos, and do all sorts of crazy things too. Instead of levyi…

Subaru require you navigating to second screen for climate modes. Simple temp adjustment has buttons, but the screen interactions for basic usage feels dangerous as a driver.

This is the feature I dislike most about my outback. Some systems just need buttons so you can operate without looking

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#223

Post by deergomoo »

anon7000 wrote: post #142
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #48

Remove the LTE chip and all functionality related to ads, support wireless CarPlay and android auto, and use physical buttons. You’ll win every award in the industry.

Mazda has done a great job at this so far, very minimal screen which automatically just shows CarPlay, and buttons for all the normal car stuff, which also isn’t overdone. The only flaw is the scroll wheel to interact with the screen, which is just slightly too clunky in apps with too many options

I bought a Mazda3 a few months ago and I love it. It is exactly what I want as a driver.

I even adore the scroll wheel and wish it could be in any car I own in future. Yeah it takes slightly longer to do certain actions in CarPlay, but I can do it so much more safely than I could in the Civic I had before. The infotainment boots basically instantly; as you mentioned CarPlay starts itself, and the patronising-but-mandated “don’t use this in motion” warning dismisses itself. In the Civic I would be half way down the road already by the time it booted, blindly prodding at the screen to try to dismiss that warning so I could pause the podcast that started playing itself because I plugged my phone in.

And, while my 2022 car predates the stupid auto-re-enabling ADAS requirement in Europe, the 2024+ models have single button deactivation. I dunno how, cause it’s supposed to require a minimum of two presses legally, but it sure makes me wanna stick with Mazda.

However that makes the upcoming 6E that much more disappointing. They’ve partnered with a Chinese manufacturer, I assume because they don’t have an EV platform of their own ready yet. Looks fantastic from the outside, but the inside is a sea of touch screens with barely a physical control in sight.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#224

Post by minusLik »

1a527dd5 wrote: post #204
minusLik wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cars I know lock their doors automatically when they go at a certain speed (e. g. mine does at 20 km/h). Doesn't yours?

It does. But that isn't what I want it to do. I want to manually lock the doors as soon as I close my driver side door.

Does it work better when you use the key fob from inside the car? I would expect that because they surely tested a "unlocked accidentally and locked again right away" kind of scenario.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#225

Post by jandrewrogers »

averageRoyalty wrote: post #213
acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

I understand the concept, but the question I have is why? These companies have huge wallets, and can surely scoop up a smaller automative microcontroller company and bring it in-house? It seems like a problem than enough money could solve quickly, but they've been doing horribly at this for decades now.

There have been attempts at it. Unfortunately, they consistently botch the execution so badly that most of the executives in the business have PTSD from the experience. And these were very expensive failures that become lore inside the companies. When they do acquisitions of small companies entering this market those end up getting smothered by the culture of the automotive companies.

Everyone has spent a mountain of money on this problem but spent it all assiduously avoiding addressing the root causes.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#226

Post by deergomoo »

avidiax wrote: post #147
Hobadee wrote: post #102

I've long wondered why no car manufacturer has gone for an open source model. Certain things should absolutely be locked down (for example, the airbags and other critical safety features) but there is absolutely no reason the HVAC and Infotainment system need to be closed source. Open it up and let hackers go crazy, then just "borrow" the best options out there for next year's model and everyone wins!

There could be a sort of "ARM" or "Android" but for cars. Come up with few general hardware modules, enough to replace the head unit, body controllers, ECU, climate control, and ideally driving automation, and software to run them. Everything minus safety modules like the airbag controllers, and then license them under Fair/non-discriminatory terms. Then, a variety of automakers get access to core functionality and c…

> "Android" but for cars.

Is this not just Android Automotive? A lot of Volvos use it, it’s a lower-level OS type thing that sits below Android Auto or CarPlay.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#227

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

Tsiklon wrote: post #159
Tagbert wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The window winders I can do without. Not sure that even saves a noticeable amount of money at this point with electric windows such as commodity.

All depends on how they market it. Wind down windows to me today is an aesthetic statement - “we are selling a cheap, no frills vehicle - look see! Even wind down windows” Such positioning could be what the intended customer base react well to.

Add handles like winders, but make them only have 5 degrees of travel up and down, so that they operate like the regular buttons :)

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#228

Post by pnw »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #48

Remove the LTE chip and all functionality related to ads, support wireless CarPlay and android auto, and use physical buttons. You’ll win every award in the industry.

Removing LTE would remove key features that drivers want, including real time traffic updates, remote controls and streaming media? What's your objection to LTE?

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#229

Post by hedora »

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #176
XorNot wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which turns it into more uselessness for marketing rather then practicality. For example, mechanical window winders would need a whole extra disengagement or locking mechanism for child proofing.

But that car isn’t intended for customers transporting kids. Two seats.

My biggest concern is lack of a stereo. Did they include speaker cutouts and wires, or are you looking at a $1000 labor bill, minimum?

I’d much rather they included a $200 system, since ~ 100% of their customers will want to be able to have speakers in the doors and a mic in the dash (at the very least).

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#230

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #140
ratatoskrt wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...why? Seems pretty sensible to me?

https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/smart-mobili... Can you explain why these protections are not sufficient for privacy? > 112 eCall is not a black box. It does not record constantly the position of the vehicle, it records only a few data to determine the position and direction of the vehicle just before the crash and these data are only transmitted to emergency call centers if there is a serious crash.…

Because you have to just believe that they are followed, and cannot verify it.
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